Conversation StartersLearn the Daytime Pickup ...Without Failing Or Getting Rejected By Women!
Let me ask you a question: Do you have a problem starting conversations with women?
Have you ever seen a woman you wanted to meet but you were just couldn’t get yourself to approach her and start a conversation? It’s like there’s something physically stopping your from doing it.
I know how frustrating it can be.
There have been times when I’d see an attractive woman but for some reason I was paralyzed with fear and I didn’t know why.
I just couldn’t explain it.
It was the kind of fear that's so powerful that it prevented me from saying something, anything, to get an interaction started.
Here are some tried and tested tips on how to start a conversation with any woman, anywhere, at anytime…
Conversation Starter Tip # 1- Captivate Her With Your Presence
Relax and Lean back. I’ve discovered that when you assume a relaxed position, even if you’re nervous, you slowly start to feel more relaxed. Next time you’re in an interaction, just lean back and try to be as relaxed and comfortable as you can. That includes doing things like leaning back, taking up some space, and leaning against the wall.
Do whatever helps you relax. For example, when I’m calling up a girl for the first time, I used to lay down flat on the floor and take deep breaths. For some reason, it helped me relax more. Walk and move slow. I modeled this behavior after guys that were NATURALS when it came to dealing with women.
Everything they did was almost too smooth. They walked, talked, and moved slow. They took their time almost like they owned time. And the more I started acting that way, the more positive responses I got from women.
Conversation Starter Tip # 2- Take Baby Steps
Rome wasn't built overnight and you won't be CASANOVA tomorrow. That's just how it works. But you can quickly build yourself up to the point where you can approach any woman, anywhere, at anytime. Here's exactly how to do it.
The 4-Day Challenge
Location: Go to the nearest mall or a place with a lot of people.
Duration: 30 minutes each day
Day 1: Eye Contact
Go out for 30 minutes and hold eye contact with every person you see. Make them look away first. Don’t forget to smile.
Day 2: Hey, How’s Your Day?
Go out for 30 minutes and say “Hey how’s your day” with everyone you see. You can start off with people working in the stores because they will be friendlier.
Day 3: Asking For The Time
Go out for 30 minutes and ask 10 people for the time. Afterwards say “Thanks” and walk away.
Real World Example:
“Excuse me, do you have the time?”
Day 4: Getting Directions
Go out for 30 minutes and ask 10 people for directions to the bathroom, movie theatre, or restaurant of your choice. Afterwards say “Thanks” and walk away.
Real World Example:
“Excuse me, I need your recommendation. What’s a good place
to eat around here?”
Follow up question: “How do I get there?”
Conversation Starter Tip # 3- Learn Advanced Techniques For Starting Conversations With Women
Once you're comfortable with the basic conversation starters, it's time to take it up one more notch…
You need to focus on attracting women, getting dates, and taking things to the next level… Fast.
And that’s why I created Daytime Pick-up Revealed.
I've basically compiled all my priceless techniques to meet any woman, anywhere, at anytime, into a comprehensive and informative e-book packed with hundreds of tips and tricks you can use instantly!
Its JAM PACKED with dozens and dozens of specific strategies for overcoming fear, approaching women, getting phone numbers and email address from women quickly, great in expensive or even free date ideas, and advice on how to take things to a "physical" level smoothly and easily.
In addition, I'd also like to invite you to sign up for my free dating tips newsletter. It's the ultimate resource for becoming a successful pick up artist. It's here - and it's a free website for men to join!
Your Friend,
Oliver Turner
Monday, December 27, 2010
Flirting Using implied Investment by Christian Hudson
I used to be pretty terrible at flirting, but the more I hung out with guys who were good at it, the more it became a natural part of my personality.
One of the benefits of doing social coaching – and it’s hard to express this in a bullet point on a website – is that in addition to our awesome curriculum and the feedback you’ll get, a guy like Nick or Dan or Race has a personality that will start to rub off on you in various ways. Before you know it, you’re flirting like a pro.
Whatever that means ;)
Anyway, here’s an example of something that came up the other night. My girlfriend and her friend were over for dinner, and her friend stuck some mole sauce in the microwave.
Her: “Uhhh, JCH… I accidentally overheated the sauce and uhhh, it kind of splattered on your microwave. I’m sorry.”
Me: “Oh no worries hon, you can just… you know… buy me a new microwave.”
Said very casually, something like this is small but funny, because it’s “heightening” the response. A normal, logical response would be to say something like “oh no worries, it’ll wipe off easily.” But by heightening it and making it slightly ridiculous (and if you know my stuff, this is basically implied investment using absurdity), it makes it funny.
And if she wasn’t my girlfriend’s friend and I wasn’t in a relationship? Well, at that point I’d be put a sweet smile on, walk over, help her clean it up, and be like “jusssssst kidding but we better teach you how to use a microwave.”
Ok, so that first part (the “buy me a new microwave” comment) is heightening to the point of absurdity – absolutely something I would have had no idea how to do when I was younger. How can you get good at it so it becomes second nature?
Well, gather round friend, while I recount to you the story of the rent-a-gun.
—–
There’s a “special” part of Central Park called the Ramble. If you go there by day, you’ll find strange men wandering around solo. I’m pretty sure that it’s a cruising ground for dudes to meet dudes, and sometimes to smoke a joint. By Central Park standards, it’s pretty sketchy.
Nick and I were talking about it the other day, and the conversation went something like this…
Me: “I wonder what the ramble is like at night. Pretty spooky, I bet.”
Nick: “Yeah, I’m pretty sure I never want to find out in person.”
Me: “Yeah, but still, it’d be interesting to see, you know? Like it’d be cool if I could get a big lucite bubble or something, so it was bulletproof and stab-proof, but I could still wander around in there.”
Nick: “And where are you going to find this lucite bubble?”
Me: “Well obviously I’m not. I guess I could just get a gun or something.”
Nick: “Jon, wandering into the ramble at night with a gun is a really. bad. idea.”
Me: (after laughing) “Yeah, plus where would I get a gun? I’d have to rent it, I don’t really want to buy one.”
Nick: “I’m pretty sure that rent-a-gun services don’t exist. But mayyyyyyybe they should.”
Hence, the birth of rent-a-gun. Like Wingbaby (credit to Nick and Race for most of that one) and the short-lived, so-offensive-it-made-my-Mom-cry-and-we-took-it-down Bum Revenge, our Rent-A-Gun concept was born out of a silly conversation. But did it stop there? Oh no… Nick and I continued to play around with the idea for the next few blocks of our walk.
Me (pretending to be a fictional announcer): “Did you ever want to see what the ramble is about at night? Well now you can, with the rent-a-gun! Or maybe there was a hardcore metal show that you just didn’t feel safe taking your girl to… Rent-A-Gun has a million and one uses.”
Nick: “Ever want to wander into a crack den? Well now you can, with the rent-a-gun!”
Me: “Life insurance available for discounted rates”
Nick: “Warning: Rent-A-Gun may lead to federal charges, jail time, harm to loved ones…”
And so on…
—–
So what’s the formula here? Well, as a matter of course with your buddies, it’s all about finding the humor in things and then “riffing” off of each other.
It starts with being open to seeing the humor. During weekly brainstorm sessions at The Onion, the boss wants to hear every idea that every writer has, no matter how offensive, vulgar, or stupid. He knows that putting filters on people when they’re being creative is the fastest way to stifle them.
(over time, you learn what to filter around the women and in the general public.)
But with your buddies, just pick these dumb sorts of ideas and play with ‘em. We obviously like fake advertisements (just wait until you hear about the Spray-On Hot Girl) but you can do it with anything…
food:
you: “I had the best chicken picatta the other night”
friend: “Well I had a bolognese, and picatta ain’t got nothing on that”.
you: “dude, I saw picatta kick bologense’s ass on UFC the other night.”
hotels:
you: “what are they building across the street?”
friend: “that’s the new fontainbleu”
you: “the new fontainbleu” (introducing a french accent)
friend: “zeeeee fountainBLEU” (more french)
you: “ouiiiiiii?”
—-
Let’s loop this all back around to the comment about buying a new microwave; that was basically implied investment using absurdity. It assumed that she was going to do something big for me.
It heightened the conversation, and made a stupidly big request.
Again, this is the sort of thing that we drill on coaching programs when clients are ready for it (we did it with Danny a few weeks ago). And over time, it comes as you find yourself:
a.) making things silly and absurd
b.) assuming that people will do stuff for you
So start playing around with it with your buddies. Expect to attract woman once you get comfortable doing it. And have fun with your conversations, because heck, life is short and talking to people should be fun.
Do you ever have any convos like this with your buddies? Any other tips for learning to flirt like this? Best comment will be published in the next email that goes out.
One of the benefits of doing social coaching – and it’s hard to express this in a bullet point on a website – is that in addition to our awesome curriculum and the feedback you’ll get, a guy like Nick or Dan or Race has a personality that will start to rub off on you in various ways. Before you know it, you’re flirting like a pro.
Whatever that means ;)
Anyway, here’s an example of something that came up the other night. My girlfriend and her friend were over for dinner, and her friend stuck some mole sauce in the microwave.
Her: “Uhhh, JCH… I accidentally overheated the sauce and uhhh, it kind of splattered on your microwave. I’m sorry.”
Me: “Oh no worries hon, you can just… you know… buy me a new microwave.”
Said very casually, something like this is small but funny, because it’s “heightening” the response. A normal, logical response would be to say something like “oh no worries, it’ll wipe off easily.” But by heightening it and making it slightly ridiculous (and if you know my stuff, this is basically implied investment using absurdity), it makes it funny.
And if she wasn’t my girlfriend’s friend and I wasn’t in a relationship? Well, at that point I’d be put a sweet smile on, walk over, help her clean it up, and be like “jusssssst kidding but we better teach you how to use a microwave.”
Ok, so that first part (the “buy me a new microwave” comment) is heightening to the point of absurdity – absolutely something I would have had no idea how to do when I was younger. How can you get good at it so it becomes second nature?
Well, gather round friend, while I recount to you the story of the rent-a-gun.
—–
There’s a “special” part of Central Park called the Ramble. If you go there by day, you’ll find strange men wandering around solo. I’m pretty sure that it’s a cruising ground for dudes to meet dudes, and sometimes to smoke a joint. By Central Park standards, it’s pretty sketchy.
Nick and I were talking about it the other day, and the conversation went something like this…
Me: “I wonder what the ramble is like at night. Pretty spooky, I bet.”
Nick: “Yeah, I’m pretty sure I never want to find out in person.”
Me: “Yeah, but still, it’d be interesting to see, you know? Like it’d be cool if I could get a big lucite bubble or something, so it was bulletproof and stab-proof, but I could still wander around in there.”
Nick: “And where are you going to find this lucite bubble?”
Me: “Well obviously I’m not. I guess I could just get a gun or something.”
Nick: “Jon, wandering into the ramble at night with a gun is a really. bad. idea.”
Me: (after laughing) “Yeah, plus where would I get a gun? I’d have to rent it, I don’t really want to buy one.”
Nick: “I’m pretty sure that rent-a-gun services don’t exist. But mayyyyyyybe they should.”
Hence, the birth of rent-a-gun. Like Wingbaby (credit to Nick and Race for most of that one) and the short-lived, so-offensive-it-made-my-Mom-cry-and-we-took-it-down Bum Revenge, our Rent-A-Gun concept was born out of a silly conversation. But did it stop there? Oh no… Nick and I continued to play around with the idea for the next few blocks of our walk.
Me (pretending to be a fictional announcer): “Did you ever want to see what the ramble is about at night? Well now you can, with the rent-a-gun! Or maybe there was a hardcore metal show that you just didn’t feel safe taking your girl to… Rent-A-Gun has a million and one uses.”
Nick: “Ever want to wander into a crack den? Well now you can, with the rent-a-gun!”
Me: “Life insurance available for discounted rates”
Nick: “Warning: Rent-A-Gun may lead to federal charges, jail time, harm to loved ones…”
And so on…
—–
So what’s the formula here? Well, as a matter of course with your buddies, it’s all about finding the humor in things and then “riffing” off of each other.
It starts with being open to seeing the humor. During weekly brainstorm sessions at The Onion, the boss wants to hear every idea that every writer has, no matter how offensive, vulgar, or stupid. He knows that putting filters on people when they’re being creative is the fastest way to stifle them.
(over time, you learn what to filter around the women and in the general public.)
But with your buddies, just pick these dumb sorts of ideas and play with ‘em. We obviously like fake advertisements (just wait until you hear about the Spray-On Hot Girl) but you can do it with anything…
food:
you: “I had the best chicken picatta the other night”
friend: “Well I had a bolognese, and picatta ain’t got nothing on that”.
you: “dude, I saw picatta kick bologense’s ass on UFC the other night.”
hotels:
you: “what are they building across the street?”
friend: “that’s the new fontainbleu”
you: “the new fontainbleu” (introducing a french accent)
friend: “zeeeee fountainBLEU” (more french)
you: “ouiiiiiii?”
—-
Let’s loop this all back around to the comment about buying a new microwave; that was basically implied investment using absurdity. It assumed that she was going to do something big for me.
It heightened the conversation, and made a stupidly big request.
Again, this is the sort of thing that we drill on coaching programs when clients are ready for it (we did it with Danny a few weeks ago). And over time, it comes as you find yourself:
a.) making things silly and absurd
b.) assuming that people will do stuff for you
So start playing around with it with your buddies. Expect to attract woman once you get comfortable doing it. And have fun with your conversations, because heck, life is short and talking to people should be fun.
Do you ever have any convos like this with your buddies? Any other tips for learning to flirt like this? Best comment will be published in the next email that goes out.
Building Passive Value through Non Verbal Communication w/ Sebastian Drake
Building Passive Value through Non Verbal Communication w/ Sebastian Drake
by Bobby Rio on May 5, 2008
Secrets of Body Language, Posture, and Non-verbal Cues…
Sebastian Drake of Master the Vibe joins us on the radio. Sebastian has been teaching men for pickup skills, how to meet more women, and how to interact better with women. I’ve always enjoyed Sebastian’s writing and I was excited for the opportunity to get him on the phone and pick his brain.
We talk about building passive value for yourself through the habit of improving your physiology, improving your posture, and secret body language tips.
Some of things you’ll learn in this interview:
How you can use physiology to send out powerful non verbal cues
Body language signs that let her know you’re alpha
How to read her body language
Subtle clues women look for to know if a guy’s “cool”
Sebastian was a great interview, and I really think you’ll learn somethings that you can implement immediately from this interview.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
about his DVD presentation:
Well what I liked about this is one thing:
(paraphasing): "This is the dirty little secret that no one in the community will tell you. If you want to be with women that are in top 10% then you have to be in top 10% of guys. Otherwise no strategies will work".
There are much better ways to get there, like if you want to improve body language don't force it but do Feldenkrais method. But this realization about top 10% is crucial.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
fantastic.
overview.
to become an elite man you must.
LOOK LIKE AN ELITE MAN.
solution: BUY BETTER CLOTHES. How to do this.
HAVE MANNERISUMS OF AN ELITE MAN
solution: Fix your BL and speaking patterns. How to do this
BE AROUND ELITE PEOPLE.
solution: Drop your loser friends. Get winner friends.
Sebastian was a looser. So what if you had no friends, hope schooled, your dad was weak, you were teased, introvert, bullied, girls made fun of you.
NO EXCUSE TO NOT TO IMPROVE.
BECOME ELITE.
Will take 1 year for results.
2 years for a "good life"
reccomended.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've seen Sebastian speak at NYCLair and he gives great insights into interactions based on Energy& Comprehension levels.
by Bobby Rio on May 5, 2008
Secrets of Body Language, Posture, and Non-verbal Cues…
Sebastian Drake of Master the Vibe joins us on the radio. Sebastian has been teaching men for pickup skills, how to meet more women, and how to interact better with women. I’ve always enjoyed Sebastian’s writing and I was excited for the opportunity to get him on the phone and pick his brain.
We talk about building passive value for yourself through the habit of improving your physiology, improving your posture, and secret body language tips.
Some of things you’ll learn in this interview:
How you can use physiology to send out powerful non verbal cues
Body language signs that let her know you’re alpha
How to read her body language
Subtle clues women look for to know if a guy’s “cool”
Sebastian was a great interview, and I really think you’ll learn somethings that you can implement immediately from this interview.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
about his DVD presentation:
Well what I liked about this is one thing:
(paraphasing): "This is the dirty little secret that no one in the community will tell you. If you want to be with women that are in top 10% then you have to be in top 10% of guys. Otherwise no strategies will work".
There are much better ways to get there, like if you want to improve body language don't force it but do Feldenkrais method. But this realization about top 10% is crucial.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
fantastic.
overview.
to become an elite man you must.
LOOK LIKE AN ELITE MAN.
solution: BUY BETTER CLOTHES. How to do this.
HAVE MANNERISUMS OF AN ELITE MAN
solution: Fix your BL and speaking patterns. How to do this
BE AROUND ELITE PEOPLE.
solution: Drop your loser friends. Get winner friends.
Sebastian was a looser. So what if you had no friends, hope schooled, your dad was weak, you were teased, introvert, bullied, girls made fun of you.
NO EXCUSE TO NOT TO IMPROVE.
BECOME ELITE.
Will take 1 year for results.
2 years for a "good life"
reccomended.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've seen Sebastian speak at NYCLair and he gives great insights into interactions based on Energy& Comprehension levels.
Sunday, December 26, 2010
Gangbang cindy at Roosh's site, female psychology
Hi my name is Cindy I have been married for ten years and I am 30 years old.My husband just started whanting to have grils night out and guys night out.Last weekend my and a younger freind went to a party.When we got there there was about 4 grils and 10 guys .After a few drinks there was two young guys about 19 that started talking to me and telling me how cute i was and then some how we end up going up stairs to the bed room and thet started taking turns kissing me at frist I was just playing around and I was not going to do anything but one thing led to anthuor and before I new it one of them pussed me down on the bed pulled his dick out and started rubing it on my face it was atleast 3 inchs longer than my husbands I just started sucking it I was so exsighted that I didnot even fell the secound guy pull of my paints and trought them on the ground.But i did fell him stuff his dick up in me This is the frist time i had evr had one in the mouth and one in the pussy it was great the two off them fucked me for about 30 minutes and i looked up to see 2 more guys standing there so what the fuck I let both of them take a turn at it and let me tell you It made me fill powerful to fuck and suck all the cum out of those four young guys I cannot wait for ladies night out again so to all you wowmen in the world try you a gangbang sometime and men let us all have a ladies night out.
Interesting shite to read here.I certainly learned from this gem. hope you can handle the rawness of this cause its real world, real life.
I personally dreamed of my GF and her being loyal and her being cool and not wanting anything else besides me....
but you have to keep satisfying girls sexually to avoid cheating and other discomfort.
I'm not a threesome guy, I have gotten good with my game when it comes to comfort connection, soul mate game. it combines emotions with sex.its a drug for me and the girl.
so Im still new at experimenting with other than MF sex, I mean threesome sex. My FB has been cool and yet she likes me alot and lets me do anything on her physically.
I also suggest that same emotions as suggested by Tyler Durden's PU diagram on emotional states, also
applies to sex in the Sex God Method explains.
rough/soft/ emotional -romantic/hardcore sex.
would like your comments on this statement by this Girl "Cindy".
BEST material to learn seduction comes from women's experience and not what she logically says what attracts her.
-S
Interesting shite to read here.I certainly learned from this gem. hope you can handle the rawness of this cause its real world, real life.
I personally dreamed of my GF and her being loyal and her being cool and not wanting anything else besides me....
but you have to keep satisfying girls sexually to avoid cheating and other discomfort.
I'm not a threesome guy, I have gotten good with my game when it comes to comfort connection, soul mate game. it combines emotions with sex.its a drug for me and the girl.
so Im still new at experimenting with other than MF sex, I mean threesome sex. My FB has been cool and yet she likes me alot and lets me do anything on her physically.
I also suggest that same emotions as suggested by Tyler Durden's PU diagram on emotional states, also
applies to sex in the Sex God Method explains.
rough/soft/ emotional -romantic/hardcore sex.
would like your comments on this statement by this Girl "Cindy".
BEST material to learn seduction comes from women's experience and not what she logically says what attracts her.
-S
KEATON shares breaking rapport and adams game
Hi guys!
When i wrote a post about adam lyons' methos, many users of sdb wrote me a pm asking to clarify them how to use this method, because it isn't really clear from the ebook.
Before i begin to explain it, i have to tell you that, if you want to understand adam's method, you can get his vip archive using the search function.
Now, i will try to explain you how to use it.
In the eBook is explained very bad so i'm not surprised that you didn't understand it.
It is about creating comfort, breaking rapport and getting compliance until the fuck.
I'm not sure this is the real adam's method but it is how i interpreted it.
After the approach you must create comfort with your target, or the set in general. Comfort can be created through humor, through an interesting conversation, through connections, etc...
After the creation of comfort that is equal to rapport + trust, you must to break it.
This is when breaking rapport enters in action.
You can break rapport in many ways: you can use teasing, disqualification, disagreement, non-supplication, you can break it in a physical and sexual way too.
There are so many ways to break rapport. If you get adam lyons' vip
archive, you can find 81 ways to break rapport and a guide to qualification that is useful to the investment or compliance.
When you've broken rapport in a way that generates attraction, you're there. It's time to get compliance.
Adam explains only one of the techniques thanks to you can get compliance.
He, in fact, explains qualification very good in his ebook in his vip archive. He tells about investment, i will explain compliance. Compliance is investment. One of the techniques to get compliance is qualification. I will not explain it because you can find it in the vip archive.
I will not explain the other techniques to get compliance too, because the can be found in sexual selection switch by vin dicarlo and in theapproach's structured natural game compilation. They can be found bot on sdb through search function.
My method consists in this. I think it's an improvement of adam lyons' method because he explains ho to generate attraction and how to get the women invest in her attraction towards you. He don't consider another important aspect of attraction: attainability. I incorporated it in my method.
VAC method is really incredible because it tells about value, attainability and compliance to generate attraction. I didn't like it because i wanted a simpler method that fit with me so i generate attraction through breaking rapport and then use attainability and compliance techniques to fuck her.
So, my method is:
Create Comfort
Breaking Rapport
Deservedness (Attainability + Compliance)
Create comfort and breaking rapport are taken from adam's method, compliance techniques are taken from theapproach's guys and i have to say that compliance is the same as investment on which adam lyons' method is based.
I hope this post has clarified some concepts about adam's method.
----------------------------------------------------------------
VAC method is the apporach by vin dicarlo and sebastian drake, sebastian drake is really good, he retired from dating scene.
I find di carlos stuff on female psycology and his shaping and mapping really good for qualification.
that is psycological background.
When i wrote a post about adam lyons' methos, many users of sdb wrote me a pm asking to clarify them how to use this method, because it isn't really clear from the ebook.
Before i begin to explain it, i have to tell you that, if you want to understand adam's method, you can get his vip archive using the search function.
Now, i will try to explain you how to use it.
In the eBook is explained very bad so i'm not surprised that you didn't understand it.
It is about creating comfort, breaking rapport and getting compliance until the fuck.
I'm not sure this is the real adam's method but it is how i interpreted it.
After the approach you must create comfort with your target, or the set in general. Comfort can be created through humor, through an interesting conversation, through connections, etc...
After the creation of comfort that is equal to rapport + trust, you must to break it.
This is when breaking rapport enters in action.
You can break rapport in many ways: you can use teasing, disqualification, disagreement, non-supplication, you can break it in a physical and sexual way too.
There are so many ways to break rapport. If you get adam lyons' vip
archive, you can find 81 ways to break rapport and a guide to qualification that is useful to the investment or compliance.
When you've broken rapport in a way that generates attraction, you're there. It's time to get compliance.
Adam explains only one of the techniques thanks to you can get compliance.
He, in fact, explains qualification very good in his ebook in his vip archive. He tells about investment, i will explain compliance. Compliance is investment. One of the techniques to get compliance is qualification. I will not explain it because you can find it in the vip archive.
I will not explain the other techniques to get compliance too, because the can be found in sexual selection switch by vin dicarlo and in theapproach's structured natural game compilation. They can be found bot on sdb through search function.
My method consists in this. I think it's an improvement of adam lyons' method because he explains ho to generate attraction and how to get the women invest in her attraction towards you. He don't consider another important aspect of attraction: attainability. I incorporated it in my method.
VAC method is really incredible because it tells about value, attainability and compliance to generate attraction. I didn't like it because i wanted a simpler method that fit with me so i generate attraction through breaking rapport and then use attainability and compliance techniques to fuck her.
So, my method is:
Create Comfort
Breaking Rapport
Deservedness (Attainability + Compliance)
Create comfort and breaking rapport are taken from adam's method, compliance techniques are taken from theapproach's guys and i have to say that compliance is the same as investment on which adam lyons' method is based.
I hope this post has clarified some concepts about adam's method.
----------------------------------------------------------------
VAC method is the apporach by vin dicarlo and sebastian drake, sebastian drake is really good, he retired from dating scene.
I find di carlos stuff on female psycology and his shaping and mapping really good for qualification.
that is psycological background.
Persistance VS Oneitis I respond
Question:
We get warned about oneitis. OTOH I've found that if I keep trying with girls a lot of type they will eventually open up. When do you know to quit?
I answer:
I remember I asked that same question to a daygame expert DOC HOLIDAY and he couldnt really describe to me other than a formula on how many times to call a girl is accetable quote...that being said.
when you are infront of her you can persist or plow verbally by not conveying neediness or clingyness by subcommunication.
verbally not being dismisive yet still talking to her and you are interested in her but not showing too desperate or predcitable.
oneiets and persistence is only a misdiagnosis when its after you met her and you cant seem to reach her to answer your calls and you are then trying to be persistent but in the wrong context when the"set is blown out" and she isnt interested yet you still text /call her leave messages and she has to verbally tell you that she isnt, then you feel bad about yourself a bit and you start to like the girl and you think as a newbie that by you not giving up you will change her mind....that is when oneitis and persistance in the wrong context seem to meet often enough.
""When women go wrong, men go right after them."" Mae West
this is cause you are wrongly investing in her more than she is. women like to chase things, in that aspect the are like a cat. you have to get them to chase you. if you are getting her investing then you can proceed, os she wants you to invest more then its less likely she will feel attraction for you.
We get warned about oneitis. OTOH I've found that if I keep trying with girls a lot of type they will eventually open up. When do you know to quit?
I answer:
I remember I asked that same question to a daygame expert DOC HOLIDAY and he couldnt really describe to me other than a formula on how many times to call a girl is accetable quote...that being said.
when you are infront of her you can persist or plow verbally by not conveying neediness or clingyness by subcommunication.
verbally not being dismisive yet still talking to her and you are interested in her but not showing too desperate or predcitable.
oneiets and persistence is only a misdiagnosis when its after you met her and you cant seem to reach her to answer your calls and you are then trying to be persistent but in the wrong context when the"set is blown out" and she isnt interested yet you still text /call her leave messages and she has to verbally tell you that she isnt, then you feel bad about yourself a bit and you start to like the girl and you think as a newbie that by you not giving up you will change her mind....that is when oneitis and persistance in the wrong context seem to meet often enough.
""When women go wrong, men go right after them."" Mae West
this is cause you are wrongly investing in her more than she is. women like to chase things, in that aspect the are like a cat. you have to get them to chase you. if you are getting her investing then you can proceed, os she wants you to invest more then its less likely she will feel attraction for you.
Thursday, December 23, 2010
Preparing my GOALS for 2011 personal and professional
I want to be a doctor, I just took my test and my mind feels erased.
I felt happy after the texst, very hard.
I hope I passed.
next step is hygenist exam, and getting aliscense at same time doing a program, so far its still pending.
also get into excersize regimen, limit myself from pua material unless I go out...I posted on "PUA is like carbs" PUA is good for feedback .
I will be posting my fuckups more often here.
I want to increase my passive value this year...I know how but Action is missing to make it work.
I posted this here but I feel to repeat it as a goal list in Brian Tracy states it :
this motivates me.
in the hypnosis by small kid for exams, he mentioned " reward"
I think this helped me alot...motivated me to do it.
anyways thanks
--------------------------------------
Ok I have to post on
Kdawg russian library pickup
and Natural pilates instructor pickup
I also caught up on Code of the NAtural by rob brinded whom I think is good material for bodylanguage aside from listening to music and getting in state by using Swingcatts beliefs affirmations.
Lloyd' s video girls around the world which gives good IOIs to girls...
I think if you act and believe that you are goodlooking the girl will test this by your congruence and bodylanguage..therefore perceive you as an attractive man.
this triggers her hardwire and bypasses other BS verbal game.
I also enjoy Elicitng IOIs material from Entropy, Badboys material on "You would be lucky to be with me" in your head as you appraoch a girl or talk to her in your subcommunication and eye contact.
I have to practice my old denis rodaman game cause my confidence and my innergame is lacking keeping eye contact..jesse charger pointed out in his blonde post email about guys who restrict their passions...I m guilty of this and this has been a sticking point for me...When I stopped for awhile masturbating and just pushed myself not to ...my sex drive goes up and testaterone goes up that I have the balls to do so..
Im seeing myself attracted to big cuban ass..i saw an older MILF blonde who I wanted to open but it seemed she was into oterh shite* I ws on busy schedule and studying so I said fuck it'
When Im studying bitches can wait.I also had looked into YAD's dayagem.com great vids and great advice on daygame.
Krauser has great vids also but I think he could be better if he used some NLP.
that being said... I found my sticking points and Im enjoying jessse's help.
I felt today a bit obsessed over susan saradon look alike MILF whom was my FB, she sent me emails and it looks like she is candidate for Long Distance FB. I really have to pass this exam and reviewd that I have to study 10-12 hours. SO crackbabys advice is GOOD. the hypnosis Jeff gave me is working for motivation, its going to be good for opening sets, I feel rusty and I feel I can do good.
I also noticed on deren browns daygame, I learned from Jeff about rapport and openning in daygame...
I might use that also, he gave me great routine for Comfort connection, I think in comfort its important to use NLP to deepen the connection and make it mutual male to female and not BFFF.
I also followed female psycology from Vin which is excellent for daygame and Im going to try it on a girl from London :
here is her pic
anyways she sems young and is from london, I have plans to go to brasil in feb march and start a program this JULY
another thing is that I have to imporve my skills ,I had a daydream about HBgymasian and run some californai pimp game.
I have top talk to ELTOPO cause I have to review my stack of reframing beliefs to frame myself and california pimps game.
I think its good stuff to bang hot girls but not sure yet.
I also liked johnny wolf's DVD on pua cribs so I picked out a car I might buy as a prize for myself I alwys wanted..
So I can do classic look ala Paul Janka or high value look or young hipster look. either way I love this car andIm planning to own one.
This is it!
that being said I plan to move to either downtown apt or south beach. maybe downtown.
so far I have planned to do this residency so lets see how this goes, next steop once I pass is prbably California liscense to practice dentistry. I want to stay in Miami causeI love miami and I dont see myselfin NYC.
I also miss HBrussian, she was hot and sexy and she would escalet on me...she really was in love with me...andI really loved her..i was an asshole cause I cant be needy and communicative with her cause she would get turned off, I rather dissapear and then as high value reapear to join me for a weekend here in Miami, so far things look good.
miami heat has brought great things. in terms of my ideas i want tomarry a school teacher or lan technician or dentist...i have to be high value and lead.
I want my kids to be talented and artistic.
I also ran my DHV storeies I used to as my painting from hispital and qualifying myself about me being artistic and helping people with their smile.
I also plan to lose weight and get a plastic surgery of my chin.
http://www.ienhance.com/articles/face/male-moguls-its-all-in-the-chin
This will enhance my passive value...I really think that I want a aesthetic dental office in south beach and cater to the high society with my work.
I really feel artistic enought to give thouse services and give my best. also have good looking women working in my office and an artsy black marble floor and white celing
and have an office where I treat regular people in another location.
I also want to travel to FRance, Brasil, London, Italy , to learn art and cosmetic procedures and take courses. I plan on doing a course in UCLA so that will be LA.
I will eb the cosmetic guru of smiles and want to have my own lab person from europe or brasil, make her my wife if she is hot. I really feel that all this is possible if I push myself. HARDER.
I want this and Im actually scared of death of this not coming true so Im going on a strict diet regimen as soon as I finish with exams.
I am planning on my hair grow to style it like this :
i really feel that Gamblers game is quite solid in psycologuy foiundation. We have to MODEL people who are high status, their behaviours and beliefs...I do plan to read more about them in their books and interviews....
I think that I can achieve alot of things...
Entropy is right cause he encouraged to really start my life first and forget about women...this hasnt been easy for me...
AfterI got good Im getting desperate,,,but I would be running on em,pty and to be real, there is no better DHV than to live your life independently...having a career etc etc..
Im not scared anymore...I rad madoff sucide and I think he might have thought he left with money and it would be hard to sue him...now picard is chasing everyone...I applaud picard cause If it were me the victims have pushed Picard to be creative and take action to pursue and sue...even if he had no grounds but it would force an investigation publicy...
Madoof ahd no choice but to either give up and talk or keep holign on...he had money so it wasnt becuse of lack of funds and he was homeless and poor....NO NO NO
it was because his concious....This reminded me of shwashank redemption and the WARDEN,
this is my next step in my chapter on my story to clear my name....
God know only why but Im not giving up...It s not time yet...its like Count of Monetecristo.
I ahve to build myself up first to then re apear unto them again...
I saw the movie and I think it was facinating and I relate to it so much...
i dont regreat going through this tough phase cause I learend more about myself than in my whole life....
I elarned to enjoy having best friends stand beside me, I learned to get good with women, had the best month of my LIFE ! ! !
And now I have to step up...all my friends are wealthy and happy and Im standing behind...alot of things God has showed ,me where I go is that its TIME for me to step up and Pass this test.
i can help my family and start my own LIFE and be a MAN, not a boy anymore.
YEah there are responsabilities and I have to adapt to society at that point.
Im happy that atleast I can move things forward away from my past, my past of fuckups and naive like montecristo....Now Im so prepared with conviction its like I have verbal skills of persuassion down.
reframing has been the best thing I learned from david barrons work.double bind and yes ladders with framing and NLP is just deadly...
WE will see how this works out but I had to write all this to stop this from me forgetting.
I felt happy after the texst, very hard.
I hope I passed.
next step is hygenist exam, and getting aliscense at same time doing a program, so far its still pending.
also get into excersize regimen, limit myself from pua material unless I go out...I posted on "PUA is like carbs" PUA is good for feedback .
I will be posting my fuckups more often here.
I want to increase my passive value this year...I know how but Action is missing to make it work.
I posted this here but I feel to repeat it as a goal list in Brian Tracy states it :
this motivates me.
in the hypnosis by small kid for exams, he mentioned " reward"
I think this helped me alot...motivated me to do it.
anyways thanks
--------------------------------------
Ok I have to post on
Kdawg russian library pickup
and Natural pilates instructor pickup
I also caught up on Code of the NAtural by rob brinded whom I think is good material for bodylanguage aside from listening to music and getting in state by using Swingcatts beliefs affirmations.
Lloyd' s video girls around the world which gives good IOIs to girls...
I think if you act and believe that you are goodlooking the girl will test this by your congruence and bodylanguage..therefore perceive you as an attractive man.
this triggers her hardwire and bypasses other BS verbal game.
I also enjoy Elicitng IOIs material from Entropy, Badboys material on "You would be lucky to be with me" in your head as you appraoch a girl or talk to her in your subcommunication and eye contact.
I have to practice my old denis rodaman game cause my confidence and my innergame is lacking keeping eye contact..jesse charger pointed out in his blonde post email about guys who restrict their passions...I m guilty of this and this has been a sticking point for me...When I stopped for awhile masturbating and just pushed myself not to ...my sex drive goes up and testaterone goes up that I have the balls to do so..
Im seeing myself attracted to big cuban ass..i saw an older MILF blonde who I wanted to open but it seemed she was into oterh shite* I ws on busy schedule and studying so I said fuck it'
When Im studying bitches can wait.I also had looked into YAD's dayagem.com great vids and great advice on daygame.
Krauser has great vids also but I think he could be better if he used some NLP.
that being said... I found my sticking points and Im enjoying jessse's help.
I felt today a bit obsessed over susan saradon look alike MILF whom was my FB, she sent me emails and it looks like she is candidate for Long Distance FB. I really have to pass this exam and reviewd that I have to study 10-12 hours. SO crackbabys advice is GOOD. the hypnosis Jeff gave me is working for motivation, its going to be good for opening sets, I feel rusty and I feel I can do good.
I also noticed on deren browns daygame, I learned from Jeff about rapport and openning in daygame...
I might use that also, he gave me great routine for Comfort connection, I think in comfort its important to use NLP to deepen the connection and make it mutual male to female and not BFFF.
I also followed female psycology from Vin which is excellent for daygame and Im going to try it on a girl from London :
here is her pic
anyways she sems young and is from london, I have plans to go to brasil in feb march and start a program this JULY
I have top talk to ELTOPO cause I have to review my stack of reframing beliefs to frame myself and california pimps game.
I think its good stuff to bang hot girls but not sure yet.
I also liked johnny wolf's DVD on pua cribs so I picked out a car I might buy as a prize for myself I alwys wanted..
its around $6,999
Its classic and looks HOT plus its a convertible.and in black.So I can do classic look ala Paul Janka or high value look or young hipster look. either way I love this car andIm planning to own one.
This is it!
that being said I plan to move to either downtown apt or south beach. maybe downtown.
so far I have planned to do this residency so lets see how this goes, next steop once I pass is prbably California liscense to practice dentistry. I want to stay in Miami causeI love miami and I dont see myselfin NYC.
I also miss HBrussian, she was hot and sexy and she would escalet on me...she really was in love with me...andI really loved her..i was an asshole cause I cant be needy and communicative with her cause she would get turned off, I rather dissapear and then as high value reapear to join me for a weekend here in Miami, so far things look good.
miami heat has brought great things. in terms of my ideas i want tomarry a school teacher or lan technician or dentist...i have to be high value and lead.
I want my kids to be talented and artistic.
I also ran my DHV storeies I used to as my painting from hispital and qualifying myself about me being artistic and helping people with their smile.
I also plan to lose weight and get a plastic surgery of my chin.
http://www.ienhance.com/articles/face/male-moguls-its-all-in-the-chin
This will enhance my passive value...I really think that I want a aesthetic dental office in south beach and cater to the high society with my work.
I really feel artistic enought to give thouse services and give my best. also have good looking women working in my office and an artsy black marble floor and white celing
and have an office where I treat regular people in another location.
I also want to travel to FRance, Brasil, London, Italy , to learn art and cosmetic procedures and take courses. I plan on doing a course in UCLA so that will be LA.
I will eb the cosmetic guru of smiles and want to have my own lab person from europe or brasil, make her my wife if she is hot. I really feel that all this is possible if I push myself. HARDER.
I want this and Im actually scared of death of this not coming true so Im going on a strict diet regimen as soon as I finish with exams.
I am planning on my hair grow to style it like this :
I think that I can achieve alot of things...
Entropy is right cause he encouraged to really start my life first and forget about women...this hasnt been easy for me...
AfterI got good Im getting desperate,,,but I would be running on em,pty and to be real, there is no better DHV than to live your life independently...having a career etc etc..
Im not scared anymore...I rad madoff sucide and I think he might have thought he left with money and it would be hard to sue him...now picard is chasing everyone...I applaud picard cause If it were me the victims have pushed Picard to be creative and take action to pursue and sue...even if he had no grounds but it would force an investigation publicy...
Madoof ahd no choice but to either give up and talk or keep holign on...he had money so it wasnt becuse of lack of funds and he was homeless and poor....NO NO NO
it was because his concious....This reminded me of shwashank redemption and the WARDEN,
this is my next step in my chapter on my story to clear my name....
God know only why but Im not giving up...It s not time yet...its like Count of Monetecristo.
I ahve to build myself up first to then re apear unto them again...
I saw the movie and I think it was facinating and I relate to it so much...
i dont regreat going through this tough phase cause I learend more about myself than in my whole life....
I elarned to enjoy having best friends stand beside me, I learned to get good with women, had the best month of my LIFE ! ! !
And now I have to step up...all my friends are wealthy and happy and Im standing behind...alot of things God has showed ,me where I go is that its TIME for me to step up and Pass this test.
i can help my family and start my own LIFE and be a MAN, not a boy anymore.
YEah there are responsabilities and I have to adapt to society at that point.
Im happy that atleast I can move things forward away from my past, my past of fuckups and naive like montecristo....Now Im so prepared with conviction its like I have verbal skills of persuassion down.
reframing has been the best thing I learned from david barrons work.double bind and yes ladders with framing and NLP is just deadly...
WE will see how this works out but I had to write all this to stop this from me forgetting.
Using Framing and Qualifying to Seduce Girls by Mr.M
Using Framing and Qualifying to Seduce Girls
Author: Mr.M
qualification
Many students on bootcamp get completely caught up on opening and attracting girls. While these are crucial steps, understanding qualification and the value of setting a qualifying frame is absolutely crucial to not only successfully getting a woman – but getting better with women generally. All of the most succesful guys I know, whether they’re naturally good – or learnt to be cool on the internet – make liberal use of framing and qualifying.
Why is Qualification So Important / Powerful In Seduction?
Qualification is surprisingly easy to apply but few people actually understand why it is so powerful. On the surface level, qualifying a woman allows her to feel that you like her for deeper reasons (other than her looks). She thus feels validated and more strongly connected to you. However, the effect of qualifying goes far deeper than this.
Almost all seduction technology replicates techniques and mindsets that ‘naturals’ adopt. A ‘natural’ is a man who has the lifestyle, social status, ability and/or characteristics of a sexual selector – i.e. a man who can get beautiful women and is thus pre-selected by women.
If you were this type of man – a sexual selector – then you would naturally qualify women because looks would become a prerequisite. It would take something more than tits and an ass to impress you. Interestingly, if you are in this frame of mind where you are inherently judging the person, then you immediately assume higher value.
Qualifying someone properly is, therefore, a very powerful signaling mechanism that you are a high value sexual selector. It signifies to women that beauty, in your world, is common, and that you expect far more than just looks. Qualifying a woman, if done correctly, challenges her to meet your standards, thus flipping the frame and making you the selector. This is the power of qualification – if applied correctly it should validate them but also get them chasing you because you are the one being sought after that the woman has to prove herself to.
I can’t tell you how many a situation I have been in when a woman has been falling all over herself to qualify to me. It’s a beautiful feeling.
How To Qualify
Try to approach this from a very natural perspective. Ask yourself – what do you want in a woman besides looks? Does this woman meet your standards as a human being? In Magic Bullets, Savoy says, “Figure out what you really want in a woman, and then take this a step further by asking yourself how a woman who possessed those characteristics would present herself. Now, spend your Qualification phase looking for precisely that. For example, among other things, I value intelligence and education. I screen for this in qualification, by asking her about books she has read and movies she has seen.” This is spot on.
I personally ask the following questions in qualification:
‘Cool people are a dying breed. What do you do for fun?’
‘I get the feeling that your job doesn’t completely fulfill you creatively. Do you have a passion outside of work?’
‘My ex used to say that there are two types of people in this world – boring and crazy. What’s the most adventurous thing you’ve done lately?’ (NB this is sometimes followed by – ‘where’s the craziest place you’ve had sex?’)
‘So what do you want to be when you grow up?’
‘What would you say are your 3 best qualities?’
Importantly, do not just IOI directly after the response that they give. I always inquire deeper into the interest/topic/issue. Only when they say something unique, should you actually give an IOI (or reward and relate) – see below for more on this.
Common Mistakes
Don’t simply give IOI’s for anything she says while qualifying. Try and inquire a little bit deeper and get some unique information out. Qualification is a form of connecting to the girl on a more emotional level. For example, is you say, “Are you adventurous?” and she says “Yes”, don’t just stop there! Ask her “So what’s the most adventurous thing you’ve done lately?” When she describes it to you, only then reward and relate. The point is to make her work a little bit for your approval.
Qualification can get boring if you’re not being inquiring. The crux point is this: the attraction phase is based more on wide rapport (i.e. multiple conversational threads, changing topics and transitioning incessantly). The qualification phase is based more on deep rapport (i.e. emotional connection, asking questions, reward and relating).
Don’t forget to sexually escalate during, and after, qualification. What I mean by sexual escalation is moving towards the kiss close and/or establishing sexual interest and/or establishing that you are a sexual threat. It’s fine to escalate during the qualification (in fact you should be doing this) but once you have actually qualified her, you definitely should escalate further. I might make a completely separate post of proper escalation if there is enough interest but for now, you can sexually escalate by any combination of the following: keeping strong eye contact (‘bedroom’ eyes), triangular gazing, lowering your tonality, allow conversation to gravitate towards sexual topics and keeping prolonged or more intimate kino (e.g. touch/hold her hands or touch back of neck if she is talking into her ear).
Author: Mr.M
qualification
Many students on bootcamp get completely caught up on opening and attracting girls. While these are crucial steps, understanding qualification and the value of setting a qualifying frame is absolutely crucial to not only successfully getting a woman – but getting better with women generally. All of the most succesful guys I know, whether they’re naturally good – or learnt to be cool on the internet – make liberal use of framing and qualifying.
Why is Qualification So Important / Powerful In Seduction?
Qualification is surprisingly easy to apply but few people actually understand why it is so powerful. On the surface level, qualifying a woman allows her to feel that you like her for deeper reasons (other than her looks). She thus feels validated and more strongly connected to you. However, the effect of qualifying goes far deeper than this.
Almost all seduction technology replicates techniques and mindsets that ‘naturals’ adopt. A ‘natural’ is a man who has the lifestyle, social status, ability and/or characteristics of a sexual selector – i.e. a man who can get beautiful women and is thus pre-selected by women.
If you were this type of man – a sexual selector – then you would naturally qualify women because looks would become a prerequisite. It would take something more than tits and an ass to impress you. Interestingly, if you are in this frame of mind where you are inherently judging the person, then you immediately assume higher value.
Qualifying someone properly is, therefore, a very powerful signaling mechanism that you are a high value sexual selector. It signifies to women that beauty, in your world, is common, and that you expect far more than just looks. Qualifying a woman, if done correctly, challenges her to meet your standards, thus flipping the frame and making you the selector. This is the power of qualification – if applied correctly it should validate them but also get them chasing you because you are the one being sought after that the woman has to prove herself to.
I can’t tell you how many a situation I have been in when a woman has been falling all over herself to qualify to me. It’s a beautiful feeling.
How To Qualify
Try to approach this from a very natural perspective. Ask yourself – what do you want in a woman besides looks? Does this woman meet your standards as a human being? In Magic Bullets, Savoy says, “Figure out what you really want in a woman, and then take this a step further by asking yourself how a woman who possessed those characteristics would present herself. Now, spend your Qualification phase looking for precisely that. For example, among other things, I value intelligence and education. I screen for this in qualification, by asking her about books she has read and movies she has seen.” This is spot on.
I personally ask the following questions in qualification:
‘Cool people are a dying breed. What do you do for fun?’
‘I get the feeling that your job doesn’t completely fulfill you creatively. Do you have a passion outside of work?’
‘My ex used to say that there are two types of people in this world – boring and crazy. What’s the most adventurous thing you’ve done lately?’ (NB this is sometimes followed by – ‘where’s the craziest place you’ve had sex?’)
‘So what do you want to be when you grow up?’
‘What would you say are your 3 best qualities?’
Importantly, do not just IOI directly after the response that they give. I always inquire deeper into the interest/topic/issue. Only when they say something unique, should you actually give an IOI (or reward and relate) – see below for more on this.
Common Mistakes
Don’t simply give IOI’s for anything she says while qualifying. Try and inquire a little bit deeper and get some unique information out. Qualification is a form of connecting to the girl on a more emotional level. For example, is you say, “Are you adventurous?” and she says “Yes”, don’t just stop there! Ask her “So what’s the most adventurous thing you’ve done lately?” When she describes it to you, only then reward and relate. The point is to make her work a little bit for your approval.
Qualification can get boring if you’re not being inquiring. The crux point is this: the attraction phase is based more on wide rapport (i.e. multiple conversational threads, changing topics and transitioning incessantly). The qualification phase is based more on deep rapport (i.e. emotional connection, asking questions, reward and relating).
Don’t forget to sexually escalate during, and after, qualification. What I mean by sexual escalation is moving towards the kiss close and/or establishing sexual interest and/or establishing that you are a sexual threat. It’s fine to escalate during the qualification (in fact you should be doing this) but once you have actually qualified her, you definitely should escalate further. I might make a completely separate post of proper escalation if there is enough interest but for now, you can sexually escalate by any combination of the following: keeping strong eye contact (‘bedroom’ eyes), triangular gazing, lowering your tonality, allow conversation to gravitate towards sexual topics and keeping prolonged or more intimate kino (e.g. touch/hold her hands or touch back of neck if she is talking into her ear).
Sasha’s Direct Mindset daygame
Hey kids! As you all know I’m going through a big “Direct” shift in my game. It’s fun!
In this video I strive to get across what actually goes through my head when I see a beautiful woman…. And how I am 100% ok with telling her what’s going through my head, as well as hot attractive I think she is!
When I started this journey I was obsessed with openers. I could tell you 100 openers for a 100 situations. And hell, some of ‘em were pretty good! As I’ve been around for a while now, I see guys fussin’ about the same kind of things I was fussin’ about back then. What’s interesting is, I’ve found that by getting in touch with your inner ape man, and letting that ape man OUT – you actually cut out a lot of steps.
What am I talking about?
“What do I say to her?”
“How to I ask for her number?
“What if I run out of things to say?”
“How do I ask her out?”
“How do I make things sexual?”
When you’re in touch with your inner apeman – you don’t need to worry about this. When you speak from the ape “ME MAN. YOU WOMAN. YOU PRETTY. ME LIKE PRETTY WOMAN! You don’t have to worry about all those other details. They sort themselves out. All you have to be sure of are these three things.
1) You’re a heterosexual man.
2) She’s a woman
3) You are physically attracted to her, and would like to sleep with her/get to know her better.
That’s it. That’s all you have to know. What else is there? Not a lot. Just remember:
Some women will want to chat with you a bit before giving out their number. Be prepared to have a bit of chat before the interaction is done. Have SOMEthing to talk about… what you’re up to that day, or something interesting that’s happened recently. But, always remember you’re talking to her because you WANT TO HOOKUP WITH HER – and always push the interaction towards setting up a date!
Upon being opened directly, some women will test you to see if you really are a confident man. Don’t flinch. This is normal. Relax. Maintain eye contact. RELAX AND SMILE. She’s just another woman – one of millions. You, Ape man. You have chosen her – HER. She’s lucky she will have you to protect her from all the other ape man. LUCKY. Never forget this.
Keep the interaction short. 5 mins MAX. When you’re being direct, LESS IS MORE. Be that mysterious, confident guy. Get her number, have a little bit of chat, and GET OUT OF THERE! The more you talk, the more you fall into the “friend” zone. Some guy she spoke to for 25 minutes isn’t a mysterious sexy stranger. It’s her “friend.” Not good!
And remember: There are millions, MILLIONS of women out there you are compatible with. Most of the HOT ones you meet WILL have boyfriends. This is ok… you will have to speak to quite a few before you get somewhere. ENJOY IT! Love that feeling you get when you run up to a girl, and tell her she’s the hottest thing you’ve seen that year/week/hour. LOVE THE PROCESS! Enjoy meeting new people!
They’ll love you for it… and you’ll love you for it as well. And as an Added bonus, I’ll love you too!
That’s all for now, hope you enjoy the vid and leave some comments. I’ll be watchin’
Sasha
In this video I strive to get across what actually goes through my head when I see a beautiful woman…. And how I am 100% ok with telling her what’s going through my head, as well as hot attractive I think she is!
When I started this journey I was obsessed with openers. I could tell you 100 openers for a 100 situations. And hell, some of ‘em were pretty good! As I’ve been around for a while now, I see guys fussin’ about the same kind of things I was fussin’ about back then. What’s interesting is, I’ve found that by getting in touch with your inner ape man, and letting that ape man OUT – you actually cut out a lot of steps.
What am I talking about?
“What do I say to her?”
“How to I ask for her number?
“What if I run out of things to say?”
“How do I ask her out?”
“How do I make things sexual?”
When you’re in touch with your inner apeman – you don’t need to worry about this. When you speak from the ape “ME MAN. YOU WOMAN. YOU PRETTY. ME LIKE PRETTY WOMAN! You don’t have to worry about all those other details. They sort themselves out. All you have to be sure of are these three things.
1) You’re a heterosexual man.
2) She’s a woman
3) You are physically attracted to her, and would like to sleep with her/get to know her better.
That’s it. That’s all you have to know. What else is there? Not a lot. Just remember:
Some women will want to chat with you a bit before giving out their number. Be prepared to have a bit of chat before the interaction is done. Have SOMEthing to talk about… what you’re up to that day, or something interesting that’s happened recently. But, always remember you’re talking to her because you WANT TO HOOKUP WITH HER – and always push the interaction towards setting up a date!
Upon being opened directly, some women will test you to see if you really are a confident man. Don’t flinch. This is normal. Relax. Maintain eye contact. RELAX AND SMILE. She’s just another woman – one of millions. You, Ape man. You have chosen her – HER. She’s lucky she will have you to protect her from all the other ape man. LUCKY. Never forget this.
Keep the interaction short. 5 mins MAX. When you’re being direct, LESS IS MORE. Be that mysterious, confident guy. Get her number, have a little bit of chat, and GET OUT OF THERE! The more you talk, the more you fall into the “friend” zone. Some guy she spoke to for 25 minutes isn’t a mysterious sexy stranger. It’s her “friend.” Not good!
And remember: There are millions, MILLIONS of women out there you are compatible with. Most of the HOT ones you meet WILL have boyfriends. This is ok… you will have to speak to quite a few before you get somewhere. ENJOY IT! Love that feeling you get when you run up to a girl, and tell her she’s the hottest thing you’ve seen that year/week/hour. LOVE THE PROCESS! Enjoy meeting new people!
They’ll love you for it… and you’ll love you for it as well. And as an Added bonus, I’ll love you too!
That’s all for now, hope you enjoy the vid and leave some comments. I’ll be watchin’
Sasha
“Approaching Women And Starting Conversations – Pre-Framing”
For some men the very thought of approaching women and starting conversations is enough to leave him trembling with fear. And the cause of this fear? Usually, it’s the thought that if you approach women you’ll get rejected, and often in the harshest ways possible.
If I asked you to imagine the worst kind of response from a daytime approach, what would you think of?
“Fuck off!”
“Leave me alone!”
“Go away!”
” ” (complete silence)
I’m guessing these will probably be some of them. Well, I have a confession to make.
I’ve had all of these.
Did it hurt?
You bet.
Am I about to tell you guys that you will get this too at some point and to just bite the bullet and do it anyway?
Actually no.
Because there is a very specific reason why you would get responses like these when approaching women and starting conversations. I learnt the hard way, but now I have this knowledge I can help others avoid some painful rejections.
I’m going to teach you about PRE-FRAMING.
When approaching women and starting conversations, what can often happen, ESPECIALLY if you’re approaching them on the street, is the girl automatically places the “Salesman Frame” over the interaction.
Before we continue lets quickly outline what a “Frame” is. A Frame is the context through which the words in the interaction are filtered – therefore the Frame over the interaction plays a huge part in determining what is ultimately being communicated.
That probably doesn’t make sense, so let me explain with an example.
Your best friend tells you that a certain stranger at a party is a complete liar and always exaggerates everything, and not to believe anything he says. The stranger approaches you and tells you he is a world champion pool player. Do you believe him? No. Because your friend “Pre-Framed” him as a lyer. Now everything he said was being filtered through the frame of a liar, thus changing what was ultimately communicated.
Back to the approach.
If a woman had lived her life in a cocoon before deciding to walk down that street, and you were the first person in her entire life to try and grab her attention in the street, she would stop guaranteed. The problem is that this isn’t the case. She HAS been approached in the street before. And the problem, is that nearly all of these times it’s been someone trying to GET something from her. Salesman, club promoters, charity people, beggers – it’s always been someone approaching to try and take some value.
So you approach, and unless you take counter-measures, she will see you approach, and will automatically place a “Salesman frame” on the impending interaction. Now ANYTHING you say will be filtered through this filter, and she won’t be listening to any of it, because she really doesn’t want to buy anything.
“Sorry I’m busy”
“I’m not interested”
“Leave me alone”
If you’ve ever had this reponse from a girl, then I guarantee you she is only saying this because she has preframed you, and is just assuming you are a salesman of some kind.
DO NOT TAKE THIS TO HEART!
You have nothing to sell – you’re actually approaching to GIVE value, through your fun positive vibe/compliments etc. So clearly there’s a mistake happening.
And in order to prevent this mistake from happening, you need to PRE-FRAME the interaction. This is where you place your own frame on the interaction before she has a chance to, in the form a short, intriguing statement just as you approach.
The statement will replace what you might have been saying to get her attention, for example “Hi there, sorry to bother you”
Replace it with a statement that is very unconventional – something that she might not have heard on the street before. Something that will take her by surprise and make her want to hear what you’re going to say next. Something that a salesman would NEVER say.
Some examples are:
“Oh my god I HAVE to say this to you….”
“Oh my god can I just say something?….”
“Excuse me, this is gonna sound crazy but….”
Get the idea?
A statement like this will Pre-Frame the interaction as anything BUT a salesman. She will be intrigued enough to stop and listen to you. Remember, all the pre-frame does is make her stop. She might just say “yes, what is it?”
But “Yes, what is it?” is a million times better than “Sorry I’m busy”!
Go out there and just remember when you’re approaching women and starting conversations to always start off with the pre-frame before you actually open, and you will find women much more open to talking to you.
Look forward to reading your comments for this article below!
Good luck!
Andy.
If I asked you to imagine the worst kind of response from a daytime approach, what would you think of?
“Fuck off!”
“Leave me alone!”
“Go away!”
” ” (complete silence)
I’m guessing these will probably be some of them. Well, I have a confession to make.
I’ve had all of these.
Did it hurt?
You bet.
Am I about to tell you guys that you will get this too at some point and to just bite the bullet and do it anyway?
Actually no.
Because there is a very specific reason why you would get responses like these when approaching women and starting conversations. I learnt the hard way, but now I have this knowledge I can help others avoid some painful rejections.
I’m going to teach you about PRE-FRAMING.
When approaching women and starting conversations, what can often happen, ESPECIALLY if you’re approaching them on the street, is the girl automatically places the “Salesman Frame” over the interaction.
Before we continue lets quickly outline what a “Frame” is. A Frame is the context through which the words in the interaction are filtered – therefore the Frame over the interaction plays a huge part in determining what is ultimately being communicated.
That probably doesn’t make sense, so let me explain with an example.
Your best friend tells you that a certain stranger at a party is a complete liar and always exaggerates everything, and not to believe anything he says. The stranger approaches you and tells you he is a world champion pool player. Do you believe him? No. Because your friend “Pre-Framed” him as a lyer. Now everything he said was being filtered through the frame of a liar, thus changing what was ultimately communicated.
Back to the approach.
If a woman had lived her life in a cocoon before deciding to walk down that street, and you were the first person in her entire life to try and grab her attention in the street, she would stop guaranteed. The problem is that this isn’t the case. She HAS been approached in the street before. And the problem, is that nearly all of these times it’s been someone trying to GET something from her. Salesman, club promoters, charity people, beggers – it’s always been someone approaching to try and take some value.
So you approach, and unless you take counter-measures, she will see you approach, and will automatically place a “Salesman frame” on the impending interaction. Now ANYTHING you say will be filtered through this filter, and she won’t be listening to any of it, because she really doesn’t want to buy anything.
“Sorry I’m busy”
“I’m not interested”
“Leave me alone”
If you’ve ever had this reponse from a girl, then I guarantee you she is only saying this because she has preframed you, and is just assuming you are a salesman of some kind.
DO NOT TAKE THIS TO HEART!
You have nothing to sell – you’re actually approaching to GIVE value, through your fun positive vibe/compliments etc. So clearly there’s a mistake happening.
And in order to prevent this mistake from happening, you need to PRE-FRAME the interaction. This is where you place your own frame on the interaction before she has a chance to, in the form a short, intriguing statement just as you approach.
The statement will replace what you might have been saying to get her attention, for example “Hi there, sorry to bother you”
Replace it with a statement that is very unconventional – something that she might not have heard on the street before. Something that will take her by surprise and make her want to hear what you’re going to say next. Something that a salesman would NEVER say.
Some examples are:
“Oh my god I HAVE to say this to you….”
“Oh my god can I just say something?….”
“Excuse me, this is gonna sound crazy but….”
Get the idea?
A statement like this will Pre-Frame the interaction as anything BUT a salesman. She will be intrigued enough to stop and listen to you. Remember, all the pre-frame does is make her stop. She might just say “yes, what is it?”
But “Yes, what is it?” is a million times better than “Sorry I’m busy”!
Go out there and just remember when you’re approaching women and starting conversations to always start off with the pre-frame before you actually open, and you will find women much more open to talking to you.
Look forward to reading your comments for this article below!
Good luck!
Andy.
Wednesday, December 22, 2010
Adam Lyons game and Sinns Game backwards engineered.....
Adam Lyons' method and how i use it!!!,
by KEATON and JackbauerCT
Hi guys!
When i wrote a post about adam lyons' methos, many users of sdb wrote me a pm asking to clarify them how to use this method, because it isn't really clear from the ebook.
Before i begin to explain it, i have to tell you that, if you want to understand adam's method, you can get his vip archive using the search function.
Now, i will try to explain you how to use it.
In the eBook is explained very bad so i'm not surprised that you didn't understand it.
It is about creating comfort, breaking rapport and getting compliance until the fuck.
I'm not sure this is the real adam's method but it is how i interpreted it.
After the approach you must create comfort with your target, or the set in general. Comfort can be created through humor, through an interesting conversation, through connections, etc...
After the creation of comfort that is equal to rapport + trust, you must to break it.
This is when breaking rapport enters in action.
You can break rapport in many ways: you can use teasing, disqualification, disagreement, non-supplication, you can break it in a physical and sexual way too.
There are so many ways to break rapport. If you get adam lyons' vip archive, you can find 81 ways to break rapport and a guide to qualification that is useful to the investment or compliance.
When you've broken rapport in a way that generates attraction, you're there. It's time to get compliance.
Adam explains only one of the techniques thanks to you can get compliance.
He, in fact, explains qualification very good in his ebook in his vip archive. He tells about investment, i will explain compliance. Compliance is investment. One of the techniques to get compliance is qualification. I will not explain it because you can find it in the vip archive.
I will not explain the other techniques to get compliance too, because the can be found in sexual selection switch by vin dicarlo and in theapproach's structured natural game compilation. They can be found bot on sdb through search function.
My method consists in this. I think it's an improvement of adam lyons' method because he explains ho to generate attraction and how to get the women invest in her attraction towards you. He don't consider another important aspect of attraction: attainability. I incorporated it in my method.
VAC method is really incredible because it tells about value, attainability and compliance to generate attraction. I didn't like it because i wanted a simpler method that fit with me so i generate attraction through breaking rapport and then use attainability and compliance techniques to fuck her.
So, my method is:
Create Comfort
Breaking Rapport
Deservedness (Attainability + Compliance)
Create comfort and breaking rapport are taken from adam's method, compliance techniques are taken from theapproach's guys and i have to say that compliance is the same as investment on which adam lyons' method is based.
I hope this post has clarified some concepts about adam's method.
Bye!!!
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What you need to remember is that breaking rapport DOES NOT generate attraction - the same way that DHV stories and magic tricks and whatever else does not generate attraction. The attraction is generated by the girl's investment.
The purpose of breaking rapport is to begin generating that investment. The point is - you build comfort, and then remove a little bit of that comfort (breaking rapport).
The girl will then make some effort to repair the slight discomfort she feels, by contributing something, or laughing, or whatever. She has started investing, and you reward her for that.
You then start qualifying as a means of capitalising and increasing that investment, rewarding her for doing it - she becomes conditioned to keep investing in you and qualifying herself, and she will 'backwards rationalise' that it is because she is attracted to you.
The 'compliance' comes in when you escalate as a reward for her investment, turning it sexual, and remove touch and reward if she does not comply.
It is not just down to breaking rapport and getting compliance, although that is not far off. Breaking rapport just begins the investment/qualification stage for her.
Regarding the process, I asked Adam Lyons the same question; in the email response I got, he said that you cycle the process - you go as far as you can until you get resistance, then cycle back to comfort and start again. Each time, it will be easier to get her to repair/invest/qualify as she has done it already.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
------------------------------------------------------------------------
will see if I can answer these as best as possible, but I am no expert.
1) Re: Adam's going on Day 2's - I don't know. He probably does more than mentioned in his field reports, but as getting a number is possible with very little attraction, getting a girl on a lunch for example is probably not that hard, especially if you are pre-selected/social proofed when you meet. Don't overthink it - just follow the formula in your interactions.
2) Attraction is a connection. The passage of time itself builds a connection. The longer you spend with someone, the more you build a connection. It will happen naturally every time you get along well with someone. Again, don't overthink it.
3) Pretty much, yes. Remember, attraction is ONLY built by her investment - breaking rapport does not build attraction, nor does DHV really - but remember DHV's are to demonstrate the 'principles of attraction' as Adam calls them - i.e. confidence/pre-selection/leadership etc. So DHV's do kind of spark attraction 'naturally' but Adam's formula is, as he says, to be used if you don't naturally have these qualities yet. But either way, they are only to get her to invest.
4) Regarding comfort, it pretty much is just the absence of discomfort. If a girl is talking to you, and you are having a nice conversation and she is contributing and not looking to leave, you are in comfort. More than anything, don't overthink this one in particular. Comfort is just that - you both feel comfortable having this conversation. And once you are here, it is time to begin breaking the rapport to make it a little less comfortable. And so start the process.
Hope this helps. Don't micro-manage trying to work this stuff out. Just remember - comfort will happen - break some of that rapport - qualify - and escalate as a reward (compliance). It can be as simple as that.
Cheers,
----------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I read Adam's diary and I enjoyed it, but it didn't help my game a whole lot - the most I got was a couple of good lines and ideas. Re: Social Proof, yes that is the biggest part of his game. With pre-selection, this is easy. When the M3 model was the only thing available, they said that with pre-selection, you can skip straight to A3 (qualification).
To ask whether his method is really effective - yes. Not only is it so simple to remember and apply, but you don't need hours of DHV routines or gimmicks etc. You say you don't think that with his method you can have a day 2, as you don't have a 'connection' - the whole point of his method is to get the girl feeling a connection to you.
As she has spent so long investing in you and proving herself, spending her time and energy, you are more likely to get a day 2 that way than any other way. Especially if you have pre-selection when you meet.
Remember, Adam's game mostly relies on qualification. Ever since the days of MM, they have always said that 'qualification is where you either win the set or lose the set'. So Adam's method is qualification based on compliance - from small to large.
If you want to find out whether it is effective (and I think it is even better for day game), go out and open 5 girls today. Start with any opener - examples:
'Is there an ATM around here?'
Tell her 'thanks you seem really friendly. I have to leave, but I have a quick question.'
transition 'I plan to move to Dallas or LA. Which sounds better to you as a complete stranger? I can't decide.'
Break rapport - I suggest stop talking and just stand there, looking comfortable and smiling.
If she does anything to keep it going, start qualifying - only little, easy questions eg about stuff she likes. Find a commonality and how awesome that is. Then tell her that she has been loads of fun, and you would like to hang out again to talk about it etc, and 'what's the best way of staying in touch?'
See how many email/number closes you get today out of those 5, and let us know. Actually do this, or you won't see how this method works and I will have just wasted
my time typing this out to help you, for nothing. Should take about 2 mins each max.
Cheers,
p.s. regarding comfort, all you need to know is this - if she is talking to you, and not trying to leave, you are in comfort. It is not a process itself. If you start talking to someone, and they start talking to you back, you have COMFORT. Comfort is the baseline of almost every chat you have. If you start worrying about comfort, you will not get anywhere. It's unimportant. In fact, remove the word COMFORT, and replace it with the word 'CONVERSATION'. There you go.
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Okay. I have done some thinking and some more research today, and I will try to answer this as clearly as I can. There is more to this.
Re: you saying that you don't think that with Adam's model you can create enough of a connection to get a day 2 - well, you build some kind of connection during initial comfort, you build a connection during qualification, and you build a connection during physical escalation. Any time you spend with her, you are building a connection - the passage of time builds connection!
If you say 'I don't THINK it will work.' then you are not out field-testing it. Either it is working for you in the field, or it isn't. As Adam got more results than anyone else in the community with this method (proven), the method itself is solid.
Regarding comfort, I did some more research. There is a PUA named Sinn, who essentially uses the same model as Adam. Sinn really filled in the blanks for me. He says that there are 3 types of comfort: superficial, rapport, and sexual.
You open with superficial comfort - this is just hoiding a conversation with a girl.
After breaking rapport, and qualifying, you move into rapport comfort - this is where you start to open up and 'connect' with the girl. (read ebook 7 responses for rapport).
When physically escalating, you need to build sexual comfort, obviously.
The comfort that comes before breaking rapport is superficial comfort - that is just talking to a girl without her trying to leave. I know this answer doesn't seem helpful to you, but it is not a process in itself - if you are having trouble with this, then all this PUA stuff is pointless for you.
So there are different types of comfort, but the comfort before breaking rapport is unimportant - there are no lines or tricks to it. If your opener works and she stops to talk, you have done it. To go further, it is recommended that you break rapport as soon as you possibly can. If superficial comfort was important, you would be told to build it, not break it.
If you are confused, check out Sinn's model for attraction. This will fill in the blanks, but only if you know where you are going wrong. Field-test this, and tell me what is going wrong. Giving you loads of information won't help you.
And yes, Mehow's model is very similar to Adam's. I go by results, and Adam gets the results. Mehow's stuff can be very complex which will not help you in-field. Adam's is simple that you can think about it while doing it.
Cheers,
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 02 Aug 2009 15:59 | Report
Excuse me if I'm late!
I've lost all the points of this discussion!
I want to add something to what jackbauerctu wrote:
1) Don't forget that breaking rapport is important not only to generate the initial investment from your target but to differentiate you from other guys too.
Breaking rapport is important also to break the comfort that can stuck you in the friendship zone. So, breaking rapport is not so simple to describe. With it, we can obtain so many benefits that I can't describe or list.
2) Investment is really important, especially in the kind of game I use. After breaking rapport, I become to qualify my target in an incredible way. I qualify my target until she become uncomfortable. When this happens, I re-establish comfort and, then, I break it again. After doing this, I restart from the level of qualification that I've obtained before.
3) Reward and Punishment are also very important. I call them "Shaping" and I use it after every qualification. If my target qualify herself properly, I reward her, if not, I punish her. Shaping is important, especially when you use it to punish her. When you punish her, in fact, she learn a great lesson and she will not do this the next time.
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Keaton, awesome answer!
The more I have been thinking and the more I have been playing with this, I have realised my sticking points with this which you pretty much just addressed!
Firstly, excellent point re: making her uncomfortable, cycling to comfort, and re-starting from previous level. I have to try that when I get back to civilisation.
One question re: punishment. Obviously that's a big part of investment game, but how are you punishing? I have a big problem with knowing how to balance the punishment vs immediately giving them another chance straight away which you have to do to avoid negative conditioning.
Any of your tips would be really welcome.
Cheers,
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 03 Aug 2009 23:18 | Report
Yeah Man! You got it!
Reward/Punishment is a great part of the game.
If you want to learn about shaping, the best thing you can do is to download Conversation Cure and to watch carefully to DVD 5. It is explained very well how to reward/punish her and when to do it.
You can find shaping on sCubed too. You can even find it on theApproach Natural Game Article Compilation, in the Compliance section.
If, after done that, you still have any doubt, post them here and I will try to clarify you your sticking points.
Greetings,
Keaton
mal
Junior Member
Posts: 200
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 23:46
, Posted 04 Aug 2009 15:06 | Report
jackbauerctu: Thank you so much for all your replies and your time you put in. I read the book you said: 7 responses for rapport and is great. Your reply about sinn model it helped me a lot.
I have a doubt what was your sp that Keaton adress and "fixed" it? 'cause may be mine hehe. Also, I don't understand when you talk about that risk, what do you mean about negative conditioning?
On regards situational comfort, it's wrong to break rapport as a beginning? Because I used that this weekend and goes well. Hopes not to be a stupid question.
Keaton: Your posts are great, thanks! I will look deeply in conversation cure..
One thing I learned is that I have to restart qualification from the level I obtained before, I wasn't doing it.
You said that you qualify hard until she is uncomfortable, this means that you: qualify + reward + qualify + reward up to she doesn't qualify anymore? (without breaking rapport). Did I get it? Because you said you do this until she is uncomfortable, when you re-establish comfort and then, you break it again.
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 07 Aug 2009 16:37 | Report
I think that breaking rapport in the beginning could be dangerous.
You can break rapport only when you have it.
In the beginning, I tried to break rapport wihtout creating it and I was labeled negatively. I create first some rapport, then I break it.
For the question about qualification and breaking rapport:
When you try to qualify and the girl doesn't respond well, you have to punish her and to restart the cycle. When I have generated comfort after the punishment, I generally break it because, when I break it she will work to reobtain the comfort, then se is investing. After this little investment, you can restart with qualification cycle. It's simple if you try to use it on the field.
mal
Junior Member
Posts: 200
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 23:46
, Posted 10 Aug 2009 00:13 | Report
Thankk u Keaton!!
I think now I get but can you make a simple real example of "situational" comfort? To difference the point when the conversation ends and the rest of the cycle starts.
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 13 Aug 2009 11:51 | Report
I'm not the better man to explain you what is situational comfort and how it works.
I don't use this type of comfort. I don't make distinction of the many type of comforts.
For me, the comfort is one and I used, I use and I will use always it.
For me "COMFORT = RAPPORT + TRUST" so, for the conception of comfort I have, it's pretty useless to make distinction between different kind of comforts, etc... It's pure nonsense even the fact that rapport is separated from comfort because if you read the equation, to have comfort you must have rapport first. Comfort without rapport doesn't exist.
To return to the originary question, I think it's pretty useless to think about many different kind of comfort.
Use all the 7 responses for rapport explained in Tung's book. When you will master them, you will have complete control of comfort, even without thinking about the different kind of comfort and rapport.
Make it simple. Going deeper, sometimes, can only confuse you.
If you can make it simple, make it simple. Don't overthink about all the possible variables. Use it the simple way. PERIOD.
If you want some details about all the kind of comfort exists, search for jackbauerctu's post. In this post is explained very well how Sinn use his method and how you can fill the blanks of Adam's method, even if, for me, the information I had was enough to become awesome at game.
HAVE FUN!!!
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ADAMs and SINNS GAME COMNBINED
Hey everyone. Over 800 people have read the thread 'Adam Lyons' method and how I use it' to which I contributed a few answers.
However, having re-studied everything, Adam's great model and Sinn's awesome model (both qualification-based game which is the most reliable!) both complement each other so well, I thought I would give the best break-down of this kind of game that I could. This is off the top, so I hope you enjoy it!
This may seem complex, but without a diagram to show the cycle of this process, it seems harder than it is. I promise it is simpler to remember than all the phases of the M3 model.
Adam's model is C(-R)+Q+SE=A. Basically, comfort-rapport, +qualification,+sexual escalation=attraction.
This model is amazing and it's reliability infield is unquestioned. The whole point of these models is compliance and INVESTMENT - getting the girl invested (and thus attracted) and using compliance to escalate.
However, I felt that this model (mad props to Adam) was a little too basic. Luckily, Sinn's model is a more advanced form of it, and filled in most of the blanks for me, especially regarding different forms of qualification.
In Sinn's model, you have 1) Situational Comfort/Break in rapport. 2)Attraction material/compliance. 3)Rapport Comfort/Break in rapport. 4)Escalation/Sexual Comfort.
Underpinning these 4 phases is QUALIFICATION. Qualification is what is used to move between the phases, all the time making the girl invest. You have a) Standards qualification, b)compliance qualification, c)sexual qualification.
Standards qualification is small hoops. Compliance-medium hoops. Sexual-large hoops.
To break it down as best as I can;
You open with situational comfort.
You break rapport, to start the girl investing.
You expand on that by small hoop qualifying.
You reward her qualifying by running attraction material.
You test for attraction by compliance tests/escalation.
You capitalise on her compliance, by medium hoop qualifying.
You reward her qualifying by moving into rapport comfort.
You break rapport again, to make her invest more (usually break is sexual)
You expand on her investment by large hoop/sexually qualifying.
You reward her qualifying by escalating, moving into sexual comfort.
Any time she doesn't comply, you cycle back to where you were. If she doesn't small hoop comply, you cycle back to situational comfort.
If she doesn't medium hoop/compliance qualify, cycle back to attraction. In this case, remove touch completely and cycle back as this is mostly escalation compliance.
If she doesn't large hoop/sexually qualify, cycle back to rapport comfort.
As you can see, qualification is the key to this model, along with rewarding. She qualifies herself, and you reward, then increase the qualification etc. Sinn's model is difficult, as it is not linear and is a cycle, so I can't do it justice without a diagram, as some of the phases 'overlap'. To describe it best, breaking rapport and qualification 'overlap'; attraction and qualification 'overlap'; sexual comfort and qualification 'overlap.
Breaking rapport and qualification overlap: when you break rapport, you generally do it by teasing. The nature of teasing is that the girl is less cool than you in some way. By breaking rapport you are 'qualifying' her to prove otherwise.
Attraction and qualification overlap: when you run attraction material, you test to see if she is attracted by moving her/asking for compliance, or physically escalating. This is compliance qualification. You are 'qualifying' her to accept your escalating touch.
Sexual comfort and qualification overlap: when moving towards sexual comfort, you are constantly 'qualifying' her sexuality, primarily to turn her on so she feels comfortable getting sexual with you.
A couple of points I have missed, but may prove useful as people begin to understand this model (which I promise you is not as complicated as it seems.)
A big part of Sinn's game is sexual frames. I am not competent enough to explain them, but sexual frames mean setting frames that are conducive to the girl moving towards sexuality - i.e. frame that she is independent, spontaneous, wicked etc. (It does not necessarily mean talking about sex)
Underpinning this whole model is 'frames'. I don't have the time to explain frames and frame control, but a simple way is approaching the whole interaction by thinking and believing that 'IT'S ON' and 'THIS IS INEVITABLE' and seeing the whole interaction through that viewpoint.
Remember, the second break in rapport (in Rapport Comfort) should be sexual, to enable an easy move into sexual qualification. There are a myriad of ways to break rapport though, such as - backturns/takeaways/playfight/mock indignation/disqualifiers etc. If I can't contribute something 'new' or I don't understand it enough, I won't post it here.
I hope this serves as a guideline for qualification game and how it works. In line with Adam Lyon's beliefs, I haven't included much of the 'how' in this, but rather the 'why' - why we qualify, and why that works to get her invested etc.
Please study this method and try to understand - I truly believe it is the most effective and easiest method of game out there. And yes, despite its apparent complexity, it is remarkably simple.
Any questions I will do my best to answer.
Cheers,
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To 'pavement' - the only thing I have from Sinn where I got this info is his free video from the under 21 Convention 2008 (it's free online).
To 'mal' - thanks for the kind words. I will answer as best as I can. Don't take any of my examples as standard, understand the 'why' and you will create your own. But to try and help:
Sexual comfort - this is where she is comfortable in a sexual situation. This can be comfort with touching sensitive parts of her body i.e. neck, thigh etc; kissing (obviously) and talking about sex. You get to this stage if she sexually qualifies.
Rapport comfort - this is where you both open up and start talking about yourselves- your dreams, hopes, likes, dislikes etc. You get to this stage as you reward her for complying during compliance qualification (i.e. moving with you, doing things for you) by talking about yourself, which will encourage her to do the same. this is 'building a connection'.
Situational comfort is the very start of a conversation - and can literally be anything. If you open a girl and she starts talking, you have situational comfort. i.e. 'excuse me...do you know what time this place closes?' 'yeah, um about 2' 'oh thanks, is it always this busy on a thursday?' 'um, sometimes bla bla bla'.
The reason I think you don't need examples is a) you opening and her responding is situational comfort, and b) you break rapport so quickly that situational comfort is less important. You can build comfort in less than a minute sometimes.
Attraction material - this is what the classic M3 was about. Generally, I think the best kind is considered to be storytelling, cold reads, and misinterpretation. Misinterpretation (where you tease and, um, misinterpret what she said) is great because it also allows you to set frames. The frame of any interaction should be like 'this girl wants me' or whatever. So if she says 'where do you live?' and you go 'woah, slow down. We need more comfort, trust and connection before we can do something like that' (classic Tyler example), and she laughs, it passively sets the frame that she is hitting on you. There are tons of resources on attraction material, but these are best.
Re: takeways, I am still not sure of them yet. I'm hoping to field test over the next few days because I don't quite get the hang yet. But regarding punishment and reward, Sinn's explanation is that if she doesn't comply, you tease her on her answer and then go back to demonstrating something of value about you, and start again. Or remove touch completely. The KEY is that it does not look pouty or angry. So if you ask her to hold your glass or move with you and she gives you attitude, say e.g. 'wow, I can already tell your last boyfriend clearly did not spank you enough.' and then go back to running some attraction material/building a connection etc and try again.
it's kind of letting her know that she wasn't playing along or being cool and you noticed it, but don't really care, and want to give her another shot. Don't be reactive. Don't actually 'punish' as it builds bad emotions. Again, I'm not great on this so I will try and field test this weekend.
By 'overlap' - this is a technical thing, don't get caught in classic 'community overthinking'. What this means is that you don't break rapport - and then small hoop qualify. You don't run attraction material - and then medium hoop qualify etc. They can occur at the same time. For example, when you run attraction material, you test for compliance at the same time. You run attract material, and can escalate at the same time. That is compliance qualification. They don't necessarily occur one after the other.
The key to remember in all of this is that this model is based on where SHE is. Qualification is the central theme of this, in that qualification questions are hoops. Whichever hoops she jumps through is where SHE is. For example, if she small hoop qualifies, and then medium hoop/compliance qualifies, you don't need to run attraction material - she is attracted, and you can move into rapport comfort.
If she qualifies, and then compliance qualifies, and then large hoop/sexually qualifies, you can escalate and go sexual. You use the different types of qualification to gauge her level. Where she 'resists' or gets a bit uncomfortable, this is where you go back. i.e. no compliance qualification - run attraction material and start again.
Hope this is useful!
Cheers,
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Hey Man!
Really great post!
However, I must say a thing.
Albert Einstein said: "If you can't explain it in a simple way, probably you have not understood it enough".
Adam Lyons has exactly done it. He explained this method in a simple and natural way.
Many of us are searching for a method that can be natural and linear. Adam's method is the best in it. You must remember only to create comfort, breaking rapport and, then, to qualify and escalate.
If you fail to qualify, create more comfort and try again.
If you are trying to qualify her with a large qualification hoop and she doesn't respond well, punish her, create more comfort and then use another large qualification hoop. She will probably react well. If not, punish her, create even more comfort an do it again. It's that simple.
I find totally usefulness to think about all the phases of Sinn's model. It is not more complete, it's only more complicated.
Adam's Method is simple, more natural and less complex than Sinn's one.
Probably, Sinn's model is simpler to understand for a person who don't go in field but, if you practise in field, with the time, you will tend to simplify the method, reducing it to Adam's model. You can begin with it but, with experience, you will reduce it to Adam's steps.
Now I will try to explain you how I use it, without remember all the stages of the Sinn's method.
1) I open the girl depending on my state.
If I'm down, I usually use opinion openers or situational openers. If I'm in state, I generally use very direct openers, sometimes even sexual ones.
2) I begin to create comfort.
Adam says that comfort is the result of rapport + trust so, it's completely usefulness to distinguish between comfort and rapport as in Sinn's model. If you have comfort, you have surely even rapport so here is the first unsefulness stage of Sinn's model. Simply begin to create rapport (7 Responses for Rapport is great for this). In the beginning you can create surface rapport, with time you would begin to create deeper rapport (based on emotions) and even sexual rapport. Sinn explains it in a step by step method, but this is the natural way in which the things go. When the comfort increase, the conversation level go on. In three hours, you will be talking to her about your sexual fantasies.
3) I break rapport.
Breaking rapport is really simple. You can do it via sexual teasing, normal teasing, physical teasing, etc... I think there are no problem about this step.
4) I begin to qualify her.
There are no reasons to make the things more complex than they are.
There is only a little rule to follow: "THE ESCALATION RULE".
This rule is really simple: Do it in the basic way, then in the medium way, then in the heavier way.
When you use weights for the first time, you usually use begin with a light weight, then increase it and then even more.
Qualification is basically the same thing. Begin with small hoops. Use this for two-three times, then try to use a medium one. If she reacts well, reward her, escalate and continue to use medium ones. If she reacts negatively, punish her and come back the the small ones until she reacts positively to the medium ones. When you have qualified her with medium ones, try to use large ones. If she reacts well, reward her, escalate and continue to use larger ones until the lay. If she reacts negatively, punish her and come back to medium ones until she reacts positively to the larger ones.
It's that simple!!!
Here is the structure I use:
Qualification generate investment. When she make this investment, you reward her and escalate every time more deeply (when you use large qualification hoops, probably you can escalate heavily). When she reacts negatively, you punish her generate a little bit comfort and then return to the previous qualification hoop until she reacts negatively.
There is no reason to make this more complex, because it's really simple. Period.
Action Plan:
1) Read "7 Responses for Rapport" by Tung
2) Read "81 Ways to Break Rapport" By Adam Lyons in "AFC Adam Lyons' VIP Archive"
3) Read "Qualification Guide" By Adam Lyons in "AFC Adam Lyons' VIP Archive"
After done this, you have all you need to understand Adam's method. Simply go out and fuck all the girls you can!
But if you want a step by step method like M3 model, don't come on this forum to ask natural stuff. This simple method it's not natural stuff but it is the simplest way to create it with time, because it's simple to interiorize.
If you want to follow a rigid structure, probably you will not become natural. NEVER!
I hope this post could be useful to someone.
BYE!!!
jackbauerctu
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 17:00
, Posted 13 Aug 2009 10:05 | Report
Keaton - I was waiting for your response!
You made an excellent post as usual. I have to say though, that Sinn's model and Adam's are virtually identical. What Sinn's is for me is a 'fill in the blanks' - i.e. the details about how to reward qualification.
What I mean is, I couldn't quite get how to 'reward'. But with Sinn's model, I got that you reward small hoops by running some attraction material (i.e. funny stories, teasing etc). You reward medium hoops/compliance by escalating and moving into deeper rapport. You reward large hoops qualifying by escalating and turning things more sexual.
Obviously infield, you use Adams C-R+Q+SE formula, as it is so simple to remember. Sinn's model is a clarification of each stage. But it is the same process.
Maybe this is the simple explanation? lol. I wrote that first post to try to work everything out to understand it as best as I could. But your post sums it up perfectly. Infield you would use Adam's definition as trying to remember more is risky. But in terms of preparing, or knowing exactly HOW each stage works, Sinn's model is a useful tool.
Cheers,
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 13 Aug 2009 10:18 | Report
I agree with you!
I must say that many noobs want a step by step method that, almost everytime, confuse them.
I think that a method must have many blank point. You must fill this blank points with your experience.
Try what works for you and use it.
It's not always good to have all the steps put down.
I became with Adam Lyons' Method and I filled the blank points with experience.
It's so much rewarding when you understand something that it's not explained well enough.
I would tell you to sarge together sometimes but I think it's pretty impossible because of the distance and language limits.
Cheers!
P.S.=Where did you find informations about Sinn's Model? I'm really curious to check it out. Sinn's stuff is always interesting!!!
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I think he didn't write any book about his method!
Yeah! I'm pretty much sure about it. I like Sinn's stuff so I control everytime he makes a new product.
For this reason I'm pretty sure that his method is not outlined in any kind of eBook.
Probably, you can find his method only in the Lay Report Book written by himself. Anyway, it is not outlined in a step by step way, so you have to use deduction to join all the pieces in a unique puzzle!
by KEATON and JackbauerCT
Hi guys!
When i wrote a post about adam lyons' methos, many users of sdb wrote me a pm asking to clarify them how to use this method, because it isn't really clear from the ebook.
Before i begin to explain it, i have to tell you that, if you want to understand adam's method, you can get his vip archive using the search function.
Now, i will try to explain you how to use it.
In the eBook is explained very bad so i'm not surprised that you didn't understand it.
It is about creating comfort, breaking rapport and getting compliance until the fuck.
I'm not sure this is the real adam's method but it is how i interpreted it.
After the approach you must create comfort with your target, or the set in general. Comfort can be created through humor, through an interesting conversation, through connections, etc...
After the creation of comfort that is equal to rapport + trust, you must to break it.
This is when breaking rapport enters in action.
You can break rapport in many ways: you can use teasing, disqualification, disagreement, non-supplication, you can break it in a physical and sexual way too.
There are so many ways to break rapport. If you get adam lyons' vip archive, you can find 81 ways to break rapport and a guide to qualification that is useful to the investment or compliance.
When you've broken rapport in a way that generates attraction, you're there. It's time to get compliance.
Adam explains only one of the techniques thanks to you can get compliance.
He, in fact, explains qualification very good in his ebook in his vip archive. He tells about investment, i will explain compliance. Compliance is investment. One of the techniques to get compliance is qualification. I will not explain it because you can find it in the vip archive.
I will not explain the other techniques to get compliance too, because the can be found in sexual selection switch by vin dicarlo and in theapproach's structured natural game compilation. They can be found bot on sdb through search function.
My method consists in this. I think it's an improvement of adam lyons' method because he explains ho to generate attraction and how to get the women invest in her attraction towards you. He don't consider another important aspect of attraction: attainability. I incorporated it in my method.
VAC method is really incredible because it tells about value, attainability and compliance to generate attraction. I didn't like it because i wanted a simpler method that fit with me so i generate attraction through breaking rapport and then use attainability and compliance techniques to fuck her.
So, my method is:
Create Comfort
Breaking Rapport
Deservedness (Attainability + Compliance)
Create comfort and breaking rapport are taken from adam's method, compliance techniques are taken from theapproach's guys and i have to say that compliance is the same as investment on which adam lyons' method is based.
I hope this post has clarified some concepts about adam's method.
Bye!!!
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What you need to remember is that breaking rapport DOES NOT generate attraction - the same way that DHV stories and magic tricks and whatever else does not generate attraction. The attraction is generated by the girl's investment.
The purpose of breaking rapport is to begin generating that investment. The point is - you build comfort, and then remove a little bit of that comfort (breaking rapport).
The girl will then make some effort to repair the slight discomfort she feels, by contributing something, or laughing, or whatever. She has started investing, and you reward her for that.
You then start qualifying as a means of capitalising and increasing that investment, rewarding her for doing it - she becomes conditioned to keep investing in you and qualifying herself, and she will 'backwards rationalise' that it is because she is attracted to you.
The 'compliance' comes in when you escalate as a reward for her investment, turning it sexual, and remove touch and reward if she does not comply.
It is not just down to breaking rapport and getting compliance, although that is not far off. Breaking rapport just begins the investment/qualification stage for her.
Regarding the process, I asked Adam Lyons the same question; in the email response I got, he said that you cycle the process - you go as far as you can until you get resistance, then cycle back to comfort and start again. Each time, it will be easier to get her to repair/invest/qualify as she has done it already.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
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will see if I can answer these as best as possible, but I am no expert.
1) Re: Adam's going on Day 2's - I don't know. He probably does more than mentioned in his field reports, but as getting a number is possible with very little attraction, getting a girl on a lunch for example is probably not that hard, especially if you are pre-selected/social proofed when you meet. Don't overthink it - just follow the formula in your interactions.
2) Attraction is a connection. The passage of time itself builds a connection. The longer you spend with someone, the more you build a connection. It will happen naturally every time you get along well with someone. Again, don't overthink it.
3) Pretty much, yes. Remember, attraction is ONLY built by her investment - breaking rapport does not build attraction, nor does DHV really - but remember DHV's are to demonstrate the 'principles of attraction' as Adam calls them - i.e. confidence/pre-selection/leadership etc. So DHV's do kind of spark attraction 'naturally' but Adam's formula is, as he says, to be used if you don't naturally have these qualities yet. But either way, they are only to get her to invest.
4) Regarding comfort, it pretty much is just the absence of discomfort. If a girl is talking to you, and you are having a nice conversation and she is contributing and not looking to leave, you are in comfort. More than anything, don't overthink this one in particular. Comfort is just that - you both feel comfortable having this conversation. And once you are here, it is time to begin breaking the rapport to make it a little less comfortable. And so start the process.
Hope this helps. Don't micro-manage trying to work this stuff out. Just remember - comfort will happen - break some of that rapport - qualify - and escalate as a reward (compliance). It can be as simple as that.
Cheers,
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Okay, I read Adam's diary and I enjoyed it, but it didn't help my game a whole lot - the most I got was a couple of good lines and ideas. Re: Social Proof, yes that is the biggest part of his game. With pre-selection, this is easy. When the M3 model was the only thing available, they said that with pre-selection, you can skip straight to A3 (qualification).
To ask whether his method is really effective - yes. Not only is it so simple to remember and apply, but you don't need hours of DHV routines or gimmicks etc. You say you don't think that with his method you can have a day 2, as you don't have a 'connection' - the whole point of his method is to get the girl feeling a connection to you.
As she has spent so long investing in you and proving herself, spending her time and energy, you are more likely to get a day 2 that way than any other way. Especially if you have pre-selection when you meet.
Remember, Adam's game mostly relies on qualification. Ever since the days of MM, they have always said that 'qualification is where you either win the set or lose the set'. So Adam's method is qualification based on compliance - from small to large.
If you want to find out whether it is effective (and I think it is even better for day game), go out and open 5 girls today. Start with any opener - examples:
'Is there an ATM around here?'
Tell her 'thanks you seem really friendly. I have to leave, but I have a quick question.'
transition 'I plan to move to Dallas or LA. Which sounds better to you as a complete stranger? I can't decide.'
Break rapport - I suggest stop talking and just stand there, looking comfortable and smiling.
If she does anything to keep it going, start qualifying - only little, easy questions eg about stuff she likes. Find a commonality and how awesome that is. Then tell her that she has been loads of fun, and you would like to hang out again to talk about it etc, and 'what's the best way of staying in touch?'
See how many email/number closes you get today out of those 5, and let us know. Actually do this, or you won't see how this method works and I will have just wasted
my time typing this out to help you, for nothing. Should take about 2 mins each max.
Cheers,
p.s. regarding comfort, all you need to know is this - if she is talking to you, and not trying to leave, you are in comfort. It is not a process itself. If you start talking to someone, and they start talking to you back, you have COMFORT. Comfort is the baseline of almost every chat you have. If you start worrying about comfort, you will not get anywhere. It's unimportant. In fact, remove the word COMFORT, and replace it with the word 'CONVERSATION'. There you go.
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Okay. I have done some thinking and some more research today, and I will try to answer this as clearly as I can. There is more to this.
Re: you saying that you don't think that with Adam's model you can create enough of a connection to get a day 2 - well, you build some kind of connection during initial comfort, you build a connection during qualification, and you build a connection during physical escalation. Any time you spend with her, you are building a connection - the passage of time builds connection!
If you say 'I don't THINK it will work.' then you are not out field-testing it. Either it is working for you in the field, or it isn't. As Adam got more results than anyone else in the community with this method (proven), the method itself is solid.
Regarding comfort, I did some more research. There is a PUA named Sinn, who essentially uses the same model as Adam. Sinn really filled in the blanks for me. He says that there are 3 types of comfort: superficial, rapport, and sexual.
You open with superficial comfort - this is just hoiding a conversation with a girl.
After breaking rapport, and qualifying, you move into rapport comfort - this is where you start to open up and 'connect' with the girl. (read ebook 7 responses for rapport).
When physically escalating, you need to build sexual comfort, obviously.
The comfort that comes before breaking rapport is superficial comfort - that is just talking to a girl without her trying to leave. I know this answer doesn't seem helpful to you, but it is not a process in itself - if you are having trouble with this, then all this PUA stuff is pointless for you.
So there are different types of comfort, but the comfort before breaking rapport is unimportant - there are no lines or tricks to it. If your opener works and she stops to talk, you have done it. To go further, it is recommended that you break rapport as soon as you possibly can. If superficial comfort was important, you would be told to build it, not break it.
If you are confused, check out Sinn's model for attraction. This will fill in the blanks, but only if you know where you are going wrong. Field-test this, and tell me what is going wrong. Giving you loads of information won't help you.
And yes, Mehow's model is very similar to Adam's. I go by results, and Adam gets the results. Mehow's stuff can be very complex which will not help you in-field. Adam's is simple that you can think about it while doing it.
Cheers,
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 02 Aug 2009 15:59 | Report
Excuse me if I'm late!
I've lost all the points of this discussion!
I want to add something to what jackbauerctu wrote:
1) Don't forget that breaking rapport is important not only to generate the initial investment from your target but to differentiate you from other guys too.
Breaking rapport is important also to break the comfort that can stuck you in the friendship zone. So, breaking rapport is not so simple to describe. With it, we can obtain so many benefits that I can't describe or list.
2) Investment is really important, especially in the kind of game I use. After breaking rapport, I become to qualify my target in an incredible way. I qualify my target until she become uncomfortable. When this happens, I re-establish comfort and, then, I break it again. After doing this, I restart from the level of qualification that I've obtained before.
3) Reward and Punishment are also very important. I call them "Shaping" and I use it after every qualification. If my target qualify herself properly, I reward her, if not, I punish her. Shaping is important, especially when you use it to punish her. When you punish her, in fact, she learn a great lesson and she will not do this the next time.
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Keaton, awesome answer!
The more I have been thinking and the more I have been playing with this, I have realised my sticking points with this which you pretty much just addressed!
Firstly, excellent point re: making her uncomfortable, cycling to comfort, and re-starting from previous level. I have to try that when I get back to civilisation.
One question re: punishment. Obviously that's a big part of investment game, but how are you punishing? I have a big problem with knowing how to balance the punishment vs immediately giving them another chance straight away which you have to do to avoid negative conditioning.
Any of your tips would be really welcome.
Cheers,
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 03 Aug 2009 23:18 | Report
Yeah Man! You got it!
Reward/Punishment is a great part of the game.
If you want to learn about shaping, the best thing you can do is to download Conversation Cure and to watch carefully to DVD 5. It is explained very well how to reward/punish her and when to do it.
You can find shaping on sCubed too. You can even find it on theApproach Natural Game Article Compilation, in the Compliance section.
If, after done that, you still have any doubt, post them here and I will try to clarify you your sticking points.
Greetings,
Keaton
mal
Junior Member
Posts: 200
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 23:46
, Posted 04 Aug 2009 15:06 | Report
jackbauerctu: Thank you so much for all your replies and your time you put in. I read the book you said: 7 responses for rapport and is great. Your reply about sinn model it helped me a lot.
I have a doubt what was your sp that Keaton adress and "fixed" it? 'cause may be mine hehe. Also, I don't understand when you talk about that risk, what do you mean about negative conditioning?
On regards situational comfort, it's wrong to break rapport as a beginning? Because I used that this weekend and goes well. Hopes not to be a stupid question.
Keaton: Your posts are great, thanks! I will look deeply in conversation cure..
One thing I learned is that I have to restart qualification from the level I obtained before, I wasn't doing it.
You said that you qualify hard until she is uncomfortable, this means that you: qualify + reward + qualify + reward up to she doesn't qualify anymore? (without breaking rapport). Did I get it? Because you said you do this until she is uncomfortable, when you re-establish comfort and then, you break it again.
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 07 Aug 2009 16:37 | Report
I think that breaking rapport in the beginning could be dangerous.
You can break rapport only when you have it.
In the beginning, I tried to break rapport wihtout creating it and I was labeled negatively. I create first some rapport, then I break it.
For the question about qualification and breaking rapport:
When you try to qualify and the girl doesn't respond well, you have to punish her and to restart the cycle. When I have generated comfort after the punishment, I generally break it because, when I break it she will work to reobtain the comfort, then se is investing. After this little investment, you can restart with qualification cycle. It's simple if you try to use it on the field.
mal
Junior Member
Posts: 200
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 23:46
, Posted 10 Aug 2009 00:13 | Report
Thankk u Keaton!!
I think now I get but can you make a simple real example of "situational" comfort? To difference the point when the conversation ends and the rest of the cycle starts.
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 13 Aug 2009 11:51 | Report
I'm not the better man to explain you what is situational comfort and how it works.
I don't use this type of comfort. I don't make distinction of the many type of comforts.
For me, the comfort is one and I used, I use and I will use always it.
For me "COMFORT = RAPPORT + TRUST" so, for the conception of comfort I have, it's pretty useless to make distinction between different kind of comforts, etc... It's pure nonsense even the fact that rapport is separated from comfort because if you read the equation, to have comfort you must have rapport first. Comfort without rapport doesn't exist.
To return to the originary question, I think it's pretty useless to think about many different kind of comfort.
Use all the 7 responses for rapport explained in Tung's book. When you will master them, you will have complete control of comfort, even without thinking about the different kind of comfort and rapport.
Make it simple. Going deeper, sometimes, can only confuse you.
If you can make it simple, make it simple. Don't overthink about all the possible variables. Use it the simple way. PERIOD.
If you want some details about all the kind of comfort exists, search for jackbauerctu's post. In this post is explained very well how Sinn use his method and how you can fill the blanks of Adam's method, even if, for me, the information I had was enough to become awesome at game.
HAVE FUN!!!
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ADAMs and SINNS GAME COMNBINED
Hey everyone. Over 800 people have read the thread 'Adam Lyons' method and how I use it' to which I contributed a few answers.
However, having re-studied everything, Adam's great model and Sinn's awesome model (both qualification-based game which is the most reliable!) both complement each other so well, I thought I would give the best break-down of this kind of game that I could. This is off the top, so I hope you enjoy it!
This may seem complex, but without a diagram to show the cycle of this process, it seems harder than it is. I promise it is simpler to remember than all the phases of the M3 model.
Adam's model is C(-R)+Q+SE=A. Basically, comfort-rapport, +qualification,+sexual escalation=attraction.
This model is amazing and it's reliability infield is unquestioned. The whole point of these models is compliance and INVESTMENT - getting the girl invested (and thus attracted) and using compliance to escalate.
However, I felt that this model (mad props to Adam) was a little too basic. Luckily, Sinn's model is a more advanced form of it, and filled in most of the blanks for me, especially regarding different forms of qualification.
In Sinn's model, you have 1) Situational Comfort/Break in rapport. 2)Attraction material/compliance. 3)Rapport Comfort/Break in rapport. 4)Escalation/Sexual Comfort.
Underpinning these 4 phases is QUALIFICATION. Qualification is what is used to move between the phases, all the time making the girl invest. You have a) Standards qualification, b)compliance qualification, c)sexual qualification.
Standards qualification is small hoops. Compliance-medium hoops. Sexual-large hoops.
To break it down as best as I can;
You open with situational comfort.
You break rapport, to start the girl investing.
You expand on that by small hoop qualifying.
You reward her qualifying by running attraction material.
You test for attraction by compliance tests/escalation.
You capitalise on her compliance, by medium hoop qualifying.
You reward her qualifying by moving into rapport comfort.
You break rapport again, to make her invest more (usually break is sexual)
You expand on her investment by large hoop/sexually qualifying.
You reward her qualifying by escalating, moving into sexual comfort.
Any time she doesn't comply, you cycle back to where you were. If she doesn't small hoop comply, you cycle back to situational comfort.
If she doesn't medium hoop/compliance qualify, cycle back to attraction. In this case, remove touch completely and cycle back as this is mostly escalation compliance.
If she doesn't large hoop/sexually qualify, cycle back to rapport comfort.
As you can see, qualification is the key to this model, along with rewarding. She qualifies herself, and you reward, then increase the qualification etc. Sinn's model is difficult, as it is not linear and is a cycle, so I can't do it justice without a diagram, as some of the phases 'overlap'. To describe it best, breaking rapport and qualification 'overlap'; attraction and qualification 'overlap'; sexual comfort and qualification 'overlap.
Breaking rapport and qualification overlap: when you break rapport, you generally do it by teasing. The nature of teasing is that the girl is less cool than you in some way. By breaking rapport you are 'qualifying' her to prove otherwise.
Attraction and qualification overlap: when you run attraction material, you test to see if she is attracted by moving her/asking for compliance, or physically escalating. This is compliance qualification. You are 'qualifying' her to accept your escalating touch.
Sexual comfort and qualification overlap: when moving towards sexual comfort, you are constantly 'qualifying' her sexuality, primarily to turn her on so she feels comfortable getting sexual with you.
A couple of points I have missed, but may prove useful as people begin to understand this model (which I promise you is not as complicated as it seems.)
A big part of Sinn's game is sexual frames. I am not competent enough to explain them, but sexual frames mean setting frames that are conducive to the girl moving towards sexuality - i.e. frame that she is independent, spontaneous, wicked etc. (It does not necessarily mean talking about sex)
Underpinning this whole model is 'frames'. I don't have the time to explain frames and frame control, but a simple way is approaching the whole interaction by thinking and believing that 'IT'S ON' and 'THIS IS INEVITABLE' and seeing the whole interaction through that viewpoint.
Remember, the second break in rapport (in Rapport Comfort) should be sexual, to enable an easy move into sexual qualification. There are a myriad of ways to break rapport though, such as - backturns/takeaways/playfight/mock indignation/disqualifiers etc. If I can't contribute something 'new' or I don't understand it enough, I won't post it here.
I hope this serves as a guideline for qualification game and how it works. In line with Adam Lyon's beliefs, I haven't included much of the 'how' in this, but rather the 'why' - why we qualify, and why that works to get her invested etc.
Please study this method and try to understand - I truly believe it is the most effective and easiest method of game out there. And yes, despite its apparent complexity, it is remarkably simple.
Any questions I will do my best to answer.
Cheers,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
To 'pavement' - the only thing I have from Sinn where I got this info is his free video from the under 21 Convention 2008 (it's free online).
To 'mal' - thanks for the kind words. I will answer as best as I can. Don't take any of my examples as standard, understand the 'why' and you will create your own. But to try and help:
Sexual comfort - this is where she is comfortable in a sexual situation. This can be comfort with touching sensitive parts of her body i.e. neck, thigh etc; kissing (obviously) and talking about sex. You get to this stage if she sexually qualifies.
Rapport comfort - this is where you both open up and start talking about yourselves- your dreams, hopes, likes, dislikes etc. You get to this stage as you reward her for complying during compliance qualification (i.e. moving with you, doing things for you) by talking about yourself, which will encourage her to do the same. this is 'building a connection'.
Situational comfort is the very start of a conversation - and can literally be anything. If you open a girl and she starts talking, you have situational comfort. i.e. 'excuse me...do you know what time this place closes?' 'yeah, um about 2' 'oh thanks, is it always this busy on a thursday?' 'um, sometimes bla bla bla'.
The reason I think you don't need examples is a) you opening and her responding is situational comfort, and b) you break rapport so quickly that situational comfort is less important. You can build comfort in less than a minute sometimes.
Attraction material - this is what the classic M3 was about. Generally, I think the best kind is considered to be storytelling, cold reads, and misinterpretation. Misinterpretation (where you tease and, um, misinterpret what she said) is great because it also allows you to set frames. The frame of any interaction should be like 'this girl wants me' or whatever. So if she says 'where do you live?' and you go 'woah, slow down. We need more comfort, trust and connection before we can do something like that' (classic Tyler example), and she laughs, it passively sets the frame that she is hitting on you. There are tons of resources on attraction material, but these are best.
Re: takeways, I am still not sure of them yet. I'm hoping to field test over the next few days because I don't quite get the hang yet. But regarding punishment and reward, Sinn's explanation is that if she doesn't comply, you tease her on her answer and then go back to demonstrating something of value about you, and start again. Or remove touch completely. The KEY is that it does not look pouty or angry. So if you ask her to hold your glass or move with you and she gives you attitude, say e.g. 'wow, I can already tell your last boyfriend clearly did not spank you enough.' and then go back to running some attraction material/building a connection etc and try again.
it's kind of letting her know that she wasn't playing along or being cool and you noticed it, but don't really care, and want to give her another shot. Don't be reactive. Don't actually 'punish' as it builds bad emotions. Again, I'm not great on this so I will try and field test this weekend.
By 'overlap' - this is a technical thing, don't get caught in classic 'community overthinking'. What this means is that you don't break rapport - and then small hoop qualify. You don't run attraction material - and then medium hoop qualify etc. They can occur at the same time. For example, when you run attraction material, you test for compliance at the same time. You run attract material, and can escalate at the same time. That is compliance qualification. They don't necessarily occur one after the other.
The key to remember in all of this is that this model is based on where SHE is. Qualification is the central theme of this, in that qualification questions are hoops. Whichever hoops she jumps through is where SHE is. For example, if she small hoop qualifies, and then medium hoop/compliance qualifies, you don't need to run attraction material - she is attracted, and you can move into rapport comfort.
If she qualifies, and then compliance qualifies, and then large hoop/sexually qualifies, you can escalate and go sexual. You use the different types of qualification to gauge her level. Where she 'resists' or gets a bit uncomfortable, this is where you go back. i.e. no compliance qualification - run attraction material and start again.
Hope this is useful!
Cheers,
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Man!
Really great post!
However, I must say a thing.
Albert Einstein said: "If you can't explain it in a simple way, probably you have not understood it enough".
Adam Lyons has exactly done it. He explained this method in a simple and natural way.
Many of us are searching for a method that can be natural and linear. Adam's method is the best in it. You must remember only to create comfort, breaking rapport and, then, to qualify and escalate.
If you fail to qualify, create more comfort and try again.
If you are trying to qualify her with a large qualification hoop and she doesn't respond well, punish her, create more comfort and then use another large qualification hoop. She will probably react well. If not, punish her, create even more comfort an do it again. It's that simple.
I find totally usefulness to think about all the phases of Sinn's model. It is not more complete, it's only more complicated.
Adam's Method is simple, more natural and less complex than Sinn's one.
Probably, Sinn's model is simpler to understand for a person who don't go in field but, if you practise in field, with the time, you will tend to simplify the method, reducing it to Adam's model. You can begin with it but, with experience, you will reduce it to Adam's steps.
Now I will try to explain you how I use it, without remember all the stages of the Sinn's method.
1) I open the girl depending on my state.
If I'm down, I usually use opinion openers or situational openers. If I'm in state, I generally use very direct openers, sometimes even sexual ones.
2) I begin to create comfort.
Adam says that comfort is the result of rapport + trust so, it's completely usefulness to distinguish between comfort and rapport as in Sinn's model. If you have comfort, you have surely even rapport so here is the first unsefulness stage of Sinn's model. Simply begin to create rapport (7 Responses for Rapport is great for this). In the beginning you can create surface rapport, with time you would begin to create deeper rapport (based on emotions) and even sexual rapport. Sinn explains it in a step by step method, but this is the natural way in which the things go. When the comfort increase, the conversation level go on. In three hours, you will be talking to her about your sexual fantasies.
3) I break rapport.
Breaking rapport is really simple. You can do it via sexual teasing, normal teasing, physical teasing, etc... I think there are no problem about this step.
4) I begin to qualify her.
There are no reasons to make the things more complex than they are.
There is only a little rule to follow: "THE ESCALATION RULE".
This rule is really simple: Do it in the basic way, then in the medium way, then in the heavier way.
When you use weights for the first time, you usually use begin with a light weight, then increase it and then even more.
Qualification is basically the same thing. Begin with small hoops. Use this for two-three times, then try to use a medium one. If she reacts well, reward her, escalate and continue to use medium ones. If she reacts negatively, punish her and come back the the small ones until she reacts positively to the medium ones. When you have qualified her with medium ones, try to use large ones. If she reacts well, reward her, escalate and continue to use larger ones until the lay. If she reacts negatively, punish her and come back to medium ones until she reacts positively to the larger ones.
It's that simple!!!
Here is the structure I use:
Qualification generate investment. When she make this investment, you reward her and escalate every time more deeply (when you use large qualification hoops, probably you can escalate heavily). When she reacts negatively, you punish her generate a little bit comfort and then return to the previous qualification hoop until she reacts negatively.
There is no reason to make this more complex, because it's really simple. Period.
Action Plan:
1) Read "7 Responses for Rapport" by Tung
2) Read "81 Ways to Break Rapport" By Adam Lyons in "AFC Adam Lyons' VIP Archive"
3) Read "Qualification Guide" By Adam Lyons in "AFC Adam Lyons' VIP Archive"
After done this, you have all you need to understand Adam's method. Simply go out and fuck all the girls you can!
But if you want a step by step method like M3 model, don't come on this forum to ask natural stuff. This simple method it's not natural stuff but it is the simplest way to create it with time, because it's simple to interiorize.
If you want to follow a rigid structure, probably you will not become natural. NEVER!
I hope this post could be useful to someone.
BYE!!!
jackbauerctu
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 17:00
, Posted 13 Aug 2009 10:05 | Report
Keaton - I was waiting for your response!
You made an excellent post as usual. I have to say though, that Sinn's model and Adam's are virtually identical. What Sinn's is for me is a 'fill in the blanks' - i.e. the details about how to reward qualification.
What I mean is, I couldn't quite get how to 'reward'. But with Sinn's model, I got that you reward small hoops by running some attraction material (i.e. funny stories, teasing etc). You reward medium hoops/compliance by escalating and moving into deeper rapport. You reward large hoops qualifying by escalating and turning things more sexual.
Obviously infield, you use Adams C-R+Q+SE formula, as it is so simple to remember. Sinn's model is a clarification of each stage. But it is the same process.
Maybe this is the simple explanation? lol. I wrote that first post to try to work everything out to understand it as best as I could. But your post sums it up perfectly. Infield you would use Adam's definition as trying to remember more is risky. But in terms of preparing, or knowing exactly HOW each stage works, Sinn's model is a useful tool.
Cheers,
Keaton
Junior Member
Posts: 206
Location: Naples, Italy
Joined: 07 Jun 2009 19:32
, Posted 13 Aug 2009 10:18 | Report
I agree with you!
I must say that many noobs want a step by step method that, almost everytime, confuse them.
I think that a method must have many blank point. You must fill this blank points with your experience.
Try what works for you and use it.
It's not always good to have all the steps put down.
I became with Adam Lyons' Method and I filled the blank points with experience.
It's so much rewarding when you understand something that it's not explained well enough.
I would tell you to sarge together sometimes but I think it's pretty impossible because of the distance and language limits.
Cheers!
P.S.=Where did you find informations about Sinn's Model? I'm really curious to check it out. Sinn's stuff is always interesting!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think he didn't write any book about his method!
Yeah! I'm pretty much sure about it. I like Sinn's stuff so I control everytime he makes a new product.
For this reason I'm pretty sure that his method is not outlined in any kind of eBook.
Probably, you can find his method only in the Lay Report Book written by himself. Anyway, it is not outlined in a step by step way, so you have to use deduction to join all the pieces in a unique puzzle!
Afc Adam London on social proof
Afc Adam London on social proof
Hey Guys,
Here's one of my threads on Social Proof game, This is pretty much where I concentrate all my efforts nowdays. I have a system in my life to try and capture the idea of social proof so that I can always use it when I sarge. I'll try to give some examples of this in some of my posts.
Social proof is essentially a means to generate Pre-selection, and Propinquity.
Pre-selection was a form of attraction that I feel was adequately outlined in a psychological test covered last year by Benedict Jones. The theory behind Pre-selection has been around since the mid 1900's and argueably before, however I feel this test sums it up more than well enough for our purposes.
The Test
Benedict Jones Test 05.02.06 participants first viewed eight pairs of male faces and indicated which face in each pair they preferred and how strongly they preferred it. Following this, participants viewed a slideshow where they saw the same pairs of male faces, but in which a woman was shown looking at one of the men in each pair with either a happy expression (i.e. smiling) or a relatively negative (i.e. neutral) expression. After the slide show, participants repeated the initial face preference test.
Results
For female participants, a paired samples t-test comparing the change in mean strength of preference for target faces in the happy and neutral conditions showed that the increase in preference for faces that were smiled at by women during the observation phase was greater than that for faces that were looked at by women with neutral expressions.
So we can see from the test that women generally prefere men that other women are already attracted to. As certain emotions can be ambiguous to see from a distance or without understanding the context; a harmless smile will often be perceived by others as a signature of attraction.
Therefore the more people you speak to in a room and leave feeling good about themselves with regards to you the more pre-selection you will generate. This could be done by anything from going around taking pictures of people, to getting everyone to dance, to buying everyone a drink, to just saying hi to everyone you meet.
However Social Proof is even more powerful as it also generates Propinquity, and this is a form of comfort.
Preselection = Attraction
Propinquity = Comfort
Attraction + Comfort = Lay
(Awsome formula eh? Who Said I was crap at maths.)
Propinquity is the term used to describe a physical proximity, special bond, or some form of kinship between things. Psychology views this is one of the leading triggers in interpersonal or social attraction. It roughly relates to being close to someone else in some form or another. This could be in physical terms, i.e you live in the same area as someone or not so physical, you both belong to the same association. The closer the proximity the higher the propinquity. For example those living on the same floor in a building have a higher propinquity than those on different floors.
In this Diagram we can see that A and B would both be attracted to C as C lies within both of A and B’s Circle. Likewise C would be attracted to both A and B and would have the option of choosing either. D is the outsider of the group, and therefore holds the lowest levels of attraction to any of the other parties.
The propinquity effect is the tendency for people to form friendships or romantic relationships with those whom they encounter often. In other words, relationships tend to be formed between those who have a high propinquity. It was first theorized by psychologists Leon Festinger, Stanley Schachter, Kurt Lewin and Kurt Bach in what came to be called as the Westgate studies conducted MIT university in 1950
Propinquity can be more than just physical distance. For example, residents of an apartment building living near a stairway tend to have more friends from other floors than others. Propinquity also applies to Social groups. These could consist of class mates, friendship social circles or even work colleagues, and explains the tendency for teachers to date teachers, members of the police force to date each other and so on.
In 1956 Alan C Kerckhoff conducted a study on residential propinquity, around 70% of the married couples lived within 20 blocks of their partner before marriage. This seems obvious when you think about it. Yet it is something people don’t really think about.
It seems strange to say that just being close to somebody generates attraction, yet if you notice the amount of IOI’s you get if you see a girl every morning on the same train, or from someone who lives in the apartment block opposite you. You will almost always begin to say hello every day. Obviously this isn’t the be all and end all, however it is the start. Social proof enables us to generate this regularly creating this initial spark whenever we vybe with a room showing that the room is our social circle and that they are part of it.
It is powerful because it is a passive form of game, When run correctly it enables you to get opened. My wing and best friend Jim Stark used this to close his incredibly hot current girlfriend who is a slim blonde model type and at least 6 inches taller than Jim. She actually asked him on the night.
"Who are you? Why does everyone seem to know you?"
The fact that it requires little outer game and instead primarily relies on having fun and possesing a sold Inner game frame to work from, makes it something that people can get to grips with easily without jeapodising their own personality.
It has been the basis of my game since I started in the community and is in my mind the reason I have done as well as I have so quickly. Though I am always looking to make myself better. I have seen past tutors and wings of mine stare at me as with only social proof and a few simple afc lines I have managed to close girls that blew them out previously. Then watched them completely alter their game to focus on Social Proof to amazing effect.
You want the magic pill? It doesn't exist. Social Proof is the next best thing.
AFC AdamLondon
Hey Guys,
Here's one of my threads on Social Proof game, This is pretty much where I concentrate all my efforts nowdays. I have a system in my life to try and capture the idea of social proof so that I can always use it when I sarge. I'll try to give some examples of this in some of my posts.
Social proof is essentially a means to generate Pre-selection, and Propinquity.
Pre-selection was a form of attraction that I feel was adequately outlined in a psychological test covered last year by Benedict Jones. The theory behind Pre-selection has been around since the mid 1900's and argueably before, however I feel this test sums it up more than well enough for our purposes.
The Test
Benedict Jones Test 05.02.06 participants first viewed eight pairs of male faces and indicated which face in each pair they preferred and how strongly they preferred it. Following this, participants viewed a slideshow where they saw the same pairs of male faces, but in which a woman was shown looking at one of the men in each pair with either a happy expression (i.e. smiling) or a relatively negative (i.e. neutral) expression. After the slide show, participants repeated the initial face preference test.
Results
For female participants, a paired samples t-test comparing the change in mean strength of preference for target faces in the happy and neutral conditions showed that the increase in preference for faces that were smiled at by women during the observation phase was greater than that for faces that were looked at by women with neutral expressions.
So we can see from the test that women generally prefere men that other women are already attracted to. As certain emotions can be ambiguous to see from a distance or without understanding the context; a harmless smile will often be perceived by others as a signature of attraction.
Therefore the more people you speak to in a room and leave feeling good about themselves with regards to you the more pre-selection you will generate. This could be done by anything from going around taking pictures of people, to getting everyone to dance, to buying everyone a drink, to just saying hi to everyone you meet.
However Social Proof is even more powerful as it also generates Propinquity, and this is a form of comfort.
Preselection = Attraction
Propinquity = Comfort
Attraction + Comfort = Lay
(Awsome formula eh? Who Said I was crap at maths.)
Propinquity is the term used to describe a physical proximity, special bond, or some form of kinship between things. Psychology views this is one of the leading triggers in interpersonal or social attraction. It roughly relates to being close to someone else in some form or another. This could be in physical terms, i.e you live in the same area as someone or not so physical, you both belong to the same association. The closer the proximity the higher the propinquity. For example those living on the same floor in a building have a higher propinquity than those on different floors.
In this Diagram we can see that A and B would both be attracted to C as C lies within both of A and B’s Circle. Likewise C would be attracted to both A and B and would have the option of choosing either. D is the outsider of the group, and therefore holds the lowest levels of attraction to any of the other parties.
The propinquity effect is the tendency for people to form friendships or romantic relationships with those whom they encounter often. In other words, relationships tend to be formed between those who have a high propinquity. It was first theorized by psychologists Leon Festinger, Stanley Schachter, Kurt Lewin and Kurt Bach in what came to be called as the Westgate studies conducted MIT university in 1950
Propinquity can be more than just physical distance. For example, residents of an apartment building living near a stairway tend to have more friends from other floors than others. Propinquity also applies to Social groups. These could consist of class mates, friendship social circles or even work colleagues, and explains the tendency for teachers to date teachers, members of the police force to date each other and so on.
In 1956 Alan C Kerckhoff conducted a study on residential propinquity, around 70% of the married couples lived within 20 blocks of their partner before marriage. This seems obvious when you think about it. Yet it is something people don’t really think about.
It seems strange to say that just being close to somebody generates attraction, yet if you notice the amount of IOI’s you get if you see a girl every morning on the same train, or from someone who lives in the apartment block opposite you. You will almost always begin to say hello every day. Obviously this isn’t the be all and end all, however it is the start. Social proof enables us to generate this regularly creating this initial spark whenever we vybe with a room showing that the room is our social circle and that they are part of it.
It is powerful because it is a passive form of game, When run correctly it enables you to get opened. My wing and best friend Jim Stark used this to close his incredibly hot current girlfriend who is a slim blonde model type and at least 6 inches taller than Jim. She actually asked him on the night.
"Who are you? Why does everyone seem to know you?"
The fact that it requires little outer game and instead primarily relies on having fun and possesing a sold Inner game frame to work from, makes it something that people can get to grips with easily without jeapodising their own personality.
It has been the basis of my game since I started in the community and is in my mind the reason I have done as well as I have so quickly. Though I am always looking to make myself better. I have seen past tutors and wings of mine stare at me as with only social proof and a few simple afc lines I have managed to close girls that blew them out previously. Then watched them completely alter their game to focus on Social Proof to amazing effect.
You want the magic pill? It doesn't exist. Social Proof is the next best thing.
AFC AdamLondon
Sunday, December 19, 2010
failed 3am best review breakdown by LA TRIPP and FRANCO
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sandy wrote:
Hey Tripp, let me know if we could talk this week man, cool.
It has to do with different topics...
please read this FR cause I was abit tipsy when I wrote it.
Im fucking up with fast seductions man, and I need your help. WWYD?
Fast is all about amping up the ATTRACTION fast and enough comfort to keep her with you. This includes a lot of kino, escalated from almost none to quite a bit.
Lets talk soon bro,
FR
I was in bar 3am and one girl and ALL chodes hovering and
I approached went ok made mistakes buying drink to try to lock in
Yes, definitely a bad move. You've just been slotted with every other chode/AFC.
we took shots I did takeaways and locked in it looked l like she was gaming,then she said she was looking for the bartender that told her that he wanted to fuck her in a direct way....She siad guys being direct turned her on
Apparently you managed to show enough interest to still build some attraction in her. She was blatantly telling you what you needed to do to fuck her. So, you could have fucked her.
.....I was like that sounds cool but he isnt here tonight ...:)
Not too bad for a response. You should've shown your value a bit more though, with something like, "You don't need him, I'm the man tonight." Saying tonight or even for the night shows you aren't looking for something permanent, because likely she wasn't either.
she said she wasnt happy and unemployed.
She wasn't happy. You could've made her happy. The unemployed thing didn't need to be responded to.
I DIDNT KNOW HOW TO RESPOND WO COMING OFF TOO SUBSERVIANT and TURN IT INTO A POSITIVE THING
LOL, well there you go.
so I just said" Im student now so its kidah hard on myself too ,just waiting to finish"
Yeah . . . bad choice, lol.
as I went into asking if she read cosmo to transition to transition into sex talk she says NO! and she is more of GQ girl and grew up with liking guys stuff... I DIDNT KNOW HOW TO RECOVER !
"Oh, so you're a tomboy, eh?" Likely she would've agreed. "So, you like to play in the dirt . . . and get rough." Right there transitions into sex talk.
I said Im going to restroom be back and she said she go out for a smoke..
Yeah, bad move. lol.
I came back and chodes were surrounding her.. CHODE LEERING and PEERING
Of course, as they always do when the girl is hot.
I intro myself and they left play pool...for now ...but they keep looking over in spectator mode.
Your value was lost.
since I noticed her IOI another guy chode amogs
to spike her BT I took out my fake 80's DG sunglasses and put it on her
and seed the timebridge with friend and afterhours,
"I want you to come with me it will be fun", she said no I cant I live nearby and I m just hanging out ..... ( yeah hanging out at 3am
what are you talking about?!)
Because you had lost your value in her eyes/mind.
THE AMOG SCENE : then I fluff talk but she kept looking around and "whsperer amog" comes to side he doesnt know her, whisperes in her ear she looks at me and she laughs and looks at him... I then interupt and introduce myslef ..he doesnt comply and walks off but keeps looking at her while he is playing darts ...
So your value, at this moment, was higher than his. She had more interest in you. But, your value still isn't high enough since she's not focused on you.
She had already told you previously to be direct with her. My guess is you weren't direct enough.
I start preping and SOI, she then starts feeling tension from getting all female attention from the venue and she keeps looking at pool table and darts side while Im talking to her...
She was getting female attention?
I then say " HEY! look at me Im talking to you! HELLO!" kind of in a dominant way ( NOT SURE ITF THIS IS OK OR FUCK UP)
Actually, in this type of situation, this would show weakness on your part. Insecurity, and lack of self control.
she says like "yes" she looks right at me ...I go into story on female sex or natural women patter type improv I was doing and
A little interest on her part possibly, but more so trying to keep things calm.
I told her to "OK, lets go gt out of here"
she was like " Im staying here sorry Im not thet type of girl"
Yeah, she had no comfort or attraction built toward you, otherwise you could've pulled her out.
I was like " Shut up! shut up right now! I think your are cute and want to be with you"
Direct, but too late.
whisperer taps on her shoulder to come play darts ...
keeps whisperering again and I say "dude whats up man! " in a pissed way a little but subcommunication of wtf are you doing?!
You were showing MAJOR insecurity, man.
he wonders off but keeps looking...
she looks at me hard eye contact like sexual tension building but says
" last time I had a one night stand I ended up in a relationship , Im just going to play darts and pool with the boys"
She's trying to ease you off. Yet, because she's not getting you kicked out, she's hoping you might calm down and be a real alpha and give her a more genuine reason to leave with you.
amoggs came to check in and say "is everything alright?" I said yes and she just looked and he left but kept leering...
I said " Do you want to come with me? I really like to fuck you in the ass" and smiled with a smirk ala benicio del toro in traffic
she stared at me for congruence test and said
"I'd really like that ...but Im not going to do that "
" So, Im going to go play pool now.."
I was like " You are soo full of shit ; ) " and I left...kindah of upset and yet didnt pull....
The directness came too late. And, the directness was too vulgar, actually. You don't get that vulgar with the directness that soon. Especially not after you've shown so much insecurity. You can do better than this, bro.
FRANCO Comments:
Hello Sandros,
First of all get rid of negative frames like "failed seduction" they stuff your mind with emotions which impair your game.
There is no failure: only feedback.
let´s examine the feedback we can get from this case:
papa sandros wrote:
This FR is very very RAW I worte it out of bein a littel upset and tipsy...and its unedited.
>then she said she was looking for the bartender that told >her that he wanted to fuck her in a direct way....She siad >guys being direct turned her on.....I was like that sounds >cool but he isnt here tonight ...
This can mean two things:
1. She is telling you how to seduce her = she wants you to be a direct mother fucker in order to have her agree to have sex with you.
or ( this is more likely to be true)
2. She is a cock teaser..
The strategy is different depending on which one of the two.
>she said she wasnt happy and unemployed.
>I DIDNT KNOW HOW TO RESPOND WO COMING OFF TOO >SUBSERVIANT and TURN IT INTO A POSITIVE THING
When a girl gives you a too over sexual clue stop talking about anything connected with sex. If she is a cock teaser she will use that to betaise you.
Instead work on the principle: "Don´t explicate, demonstrate"
I would comment to this like
"Oh nice to hear that the guy wants you to have a great time"
And then I would stop any discussion connected with sex and focus on isolating her.
The asshole part of me I would put out when we are in isolation.
>so I just said" Im student now so its kidah hard on myself >too ,just waiting to finish"
>as I went into asking if she read cosmo to transition to >transition into sex talk she says NO! and she is more of GQ >girl and grew up with liking guys stuff... I DIDNT KNOW >HOW TO RECOVER !
She is telling you she is a masculine girl, maybe Daddy´s daughter.
This is the kind of girl who likes to be taken by a muscular gym teacher who teaches her how to pump iron and then fucks her.
If... she is not cock teasing you.. see there are Freak girls around who enjoy getting the guys to the edge of their sexual desire and then.. disappear.
>I said Im going to restroom be back and she said she go out >for a smoke..
>I came back and chodes were surrounding her.. CHODE >LEERING and PEERING
Giving her the attention she was craving for when she went to the bar. Notice: I said attention, not sex.
>I intro myself and they left play pool...for now ...but they >keep looking over in spectator mode.
>since I noticed her IOI another guy chode amogs
>to spike her BT I took out my fake 80's DG sunglasses and >put it on her
>and seed the timebridge with friend and afterhours,
>"I want you to come with me it will be fun", she said no I >cant I live nearby and I m just hanging out ..... ( yeah >hanging out at 3am
>what are you talking about?!)
Ok you could have said: "I am sure you have a nice kitchen. Let´s go to have a look at your kitchen" See the only way to f.close her is to have her away from the place she gets attention.. if she refuses isolation in spite of a very self-confident approach from you that means she will be there all the night fishing for attention and "maybe" go for the sex .. or go home alone.
>THE AMOG SCENE : then I fluff talk but she kept looking >around and "whsperer amog" comes to side he doesnt know >her, whisperes in her ear she looks at me and she laughs >and looks at him...
Well she is playing the field for attention. See, remember this: for women and especially of the Freak type attention is far more important than sex.
You need to remember on what she focuses in her game..
>I then interupt and introduce myslef ..he doesnt comply >and walks off but keeps looking at her while he is playing >darts ...
>I start preping and SOI, she then starts feeling tension from >getting all female attention from the venue and she keeps >looking at pool table and darts side while Im talking to her...
>I then say " HEY! look at me Im talking to you! HELLO!" kind >of in a dominant way ( NOT SURE ITF THIS IS OK OR FUCK >UP)
>she says like "yes" she looks right at me ...I go into story on >female sex or natural women patter type improv I was doing >and
>I told her to "OK, lets go gt out of here"
>she was like " Im staying here sorry Im not thet type of girl"
She is fishing for attention. She is the same girl who told you that the bartender told he wants to fuck her and that she likes direct men.
So: she is cock teasing you. Using the sex hook to get attention..
>I was like " Shut up! shut up right now! I think your are >cute and want to be with you"
>whisperer taps on her shoulder to come play darts ...
>keeps whisperering again and I say "dude whats up man! " in >a pissed way a little but subcommunication of wtf are you >doing?!
>he wonders off but keeps looking...
>she looks at me hard eye contact like sexual tension >building but says
>" last time I had a one night stand I ended up in a >relationship , Im just going to play darts and pool with the >boys"
Ok she wants to make sure that if she has sex you will not become the jealous possessive boy who stalks her..
amoggs came to check in and say "is everything alright?" I said yes and she just looked and he left but kept leering...
>I said " Do you want to come with me? I really like to fuck >you in the ass" and smiled with a smirk ala benicio del toro >in traffic
>she stared at me for congruence test and said
>"I'd really like that ...but Im not going to do that "
Ok she told you plain that she is enjoying the teasing game she is doing in the bar and the attention of the boys and having fun cock teasing guys.
Next time a girl tries to cock tease you with sex what you have to do is to shift the game to something boring and neutral like financial news and politics and then escalate on her with your kino without saying a word about sex.
She asks: "What you are doing?" when you touch her hand
You say: "I think next year the financial forecast is getting better" and put your hand on her ass..
If you do not verbalize SEX or anything else she will be forced to submit to kino of push you away which will ruin her need for communication and need for cock teasing you..
>" So, Im going to go play pool now.."
>I was like " You are soo full of shit ; ) " and I left...kindah >of upset and yet didnt pull....
Now nice to be cock teased.. next time you will be better with cock teasers.
Cheers, Franco
http://www.francoseduction.com/manual-of-seduction
Hey Tripp, let me know if we could talk this week man, cool.
It has to do with different topics...
please read this FR cause I was abit tipsy when I wrote it.
Im fucking up with fast seductions man, and I need your help. WWYD?
Fast is all about amping up the ATTRACTION fast and enough comfort to keep her with you. This includes a lot of kino, escalated from almost none to quite a bit.
Lets talk soon bro,
FR
I was in bar 3am and one girl and ALL chodes hovering and
I approached went ok made mistakes buying drink to try to lock in
Yes, definitely a bad move. You've just been slotted with every other chode/AFC.
we took shots I did takeaways and locked in it looked l like she was gaming,then she said she was looking for the bartender that told her that he wanted to fuck her in a direct way....She siad guys being direct turned her on
Apparently you managed to show enough interest to still build some attraction in her. She was blatantly telling you what you needed to do to fuck her. So, you could have fucked her.
.....I was like that sounds cool but he isnt here tonight ...:)
Not too bad for a response. You should've shown your value a bit more though, with something like, "You don't need him, I'm the man tonight." Saying tonight or even for the night shows you aren't looking for something permanent, because likely she wasn't either.
she said she wasnt happy and unemployed.
She wasn't happy. You could've made her happy. The unemployed thing didn't need to be responded to.
I DIDNT KNOW HOW TO RESPOND WO COMING OFF TOO SUBSERVIANT and TURN IT INTO A POSITIVE THING
LOL, well there you go.
so I just said" Im student now so its kidah hard on myself too ,just waiting to finish"
Yeah . . . bad choice, lol.
as I went into asking if she read cosmo to transition to transition into sex talk she says NO! and she is more of GQ girl and grew up with liking guys stuff... I DIDNT KNOW HOW TO RECOVER !
"Oh, so you're a tomboy, eh?" Likely she would've agreed. "So, you like to play in the dirt . . . and get rough." Right there transitions into sex talk.
I said Im going to restroom be back and she said she go out for a smoke..
Yeah, bad move. lol.
I came back and chodes were surrounding her.. CHODE LEERING and PEERING
Of course, as they always do when the girl is hot.
I intro myself and they left play pool...for now ...but they keep looking over in spectator mode.
Your value was lost.
since I noticed her IOI another guy chode amogs
to spike her BT I took out my fake 80's DG sunglasses and put it on her
and seed the timebridge with friend and afterhours,
"I want you to come with me it will be fun", she said no I cant I live nearby and I m just hanging out ..... ( yeah hanging out at 3am
what are you talking about?!)
Because you had lost your value in her eyes/mind.
THE AMOG SCENE : then I fluff talk but she kept looking around and "whsperer amog" comes to side he doesnt know her, whisperes in her ear she looks at me and she laughs and looks at him... I then interupt and introduce myslef ..he doesnt comply and walks off but keeps looking at her while he is playing darts ...
So your value, at this moment, was higher than his. She had more interest in you. But, your value still isn't high enough since she's not focused on you.
She had already told you previously to be direct with her. My guess is you weren't direct enough.
I start preping and SOI, she then starts feeling tension from getting all female attention from the venue and she keeps looking at pool table and darts side while Im talking to her...
She was getting female attention?
I then say " HEY! look at me Im talking to you! HELLO!" kind of in a dominant way ( NOT SURE ITF THIS IS OK OR FUCK UP)
Actually, in this type of situation, this would show weakness on your part. Insecurity, and lack of self control.
she says like "yes" she looks right at me ...I go into story on female sex or natural women patter type improv I was doing and
A little interest on her part possibly, but more so trying to keep things calm.
I told her to "OK, lets go gt out of here"
she was like " Im staying here sorry Im not thet type of girl"
Yeah, she had no comfort or attraction built toward you, otherwise you could've pulled her out.
I was like " Shut up! shut up right now! I think your are cute and want to be with you"
Direct, but too late.
whisperer taps on her shoulder to come play darts ...
keeps whisperering again and I say "dude whats up man! " in a pissed way a little but subcommunication of wtf are you doing?!
You were showing MAJOR insecurity, man.
he wonders off but keeps looking...
she looks at me hard eye contact like sexual tension building but says
" last time I had a one night stand I ended up in a relationship , Im just going to play darts and pool with the boys"
She's trying to ease you off. Yet, because she's not getting you kicked out, she's hoping you might calm down and be a real alpha and give her a more genuine reason to leave with you.
amoggs came to check in and say "is everything alright?" I said yes and she just looked and he left but kept leering...
I said " Do you want to come with me? I really like to fuck you in the ass" and smiled with a smirk ala benicio del toro in traffic
she stared at me for congruence test and said
"I'd really like that ...but Im not going to do that "
" So, Im going to go play pool now.."
I was like " You are soo full of shit ; ) " and I left...kindah of upset and yet didnt pull....
The directness came too late. And, the directness was too vulgar, actually. You don't get that vulgar with the directness that soon. Especially not after you've shown so much insecurity. You can do better than this, bro.
FRANCO Comments:
Hello Sandros,
First of all get rid of negative frames like "failed seduction" they stuff your mind with emotions which impair your game.
There is no failure: only feedback.
let´s examine the feedback we can get from this case:
papa sandros wrote:
This FR is very very RAW I worte it out of bein a littel upset and tipsy...and its unedited.
>then she said she was looking for the bartender that told >her that he wanted to fuck her in a direct way....She siad >guys being direct turned her on.....I was like that sounds >cool but he isnt here tonight ...
This can mean two things:
1. She is telling you how to seduce her = she wants you to be a direct mother fucker in order to have her agree to have sex with you.
or ( this is more likely to be true)
2. She is a cock teaser..
The strategy is different depending on which one of the two.
>she said she wasnt happy and unemployed.
>I DIDNT KNOW HOW TO RESPOND WO COMING OFF TOO >SUBSERVIANT and TURN IT INTO A POSITIVE THING
When a girl gives you a too over sexual clue stop talking about anything connected with sex. If she is a cock teaser she will use that to betaise you.
Instead work on the principle: "Don´t explicate, demonstrate"
I would comment to this like
"Oh nice to hear that the guy wants you to have a great time"
And then I would stop any discussion connected with sex and focus on isolating her.
The asshole part of me I would put out when we are in isolation.
>so I just said" Im student now so its kidah hard on myself >too ,just waiting to finish"
>as I went into asking if she read cosmo to transition to >transition into sex talk she says NO! and she is more of GQ >girl and grew up with liking guys stuff... I DIDNT KNOW >HOW TO RECOVER !
She is telling you she is a masculine girl, maybe Daddy´s daughter.
This is the kind of girl who likes to be taken by a muscular gym teacher who teaches her how to pump iron and then fucks her.
If... she is not cock teasing you.. see there are Freak girls around who enjoy getting the guys to the edge of their sexual desire and then.. disappear.
>I said Im going to restroom be back and she said she go out >for a smoke..
>I came back and chodes were surrounding her.. CHODE >LEERING and PEERING
Giving her the attention she was craving for when she went to the bar. Notice: I said attention, not sex.
>I intro myself and they left play pool...for now ...but they >keep looking over in spectator mode.
>since I noticed her IOI another guy chode amogs
>to spike her BT I took out my fake 80's DG sunglasses and >put it on her
>and seed the timebridge with friend and afterhours,
>"I want you to come with me it will be fun", she said no I >cant I live nearby and I m just hanging out ..... ( yeah >hanging out at 3am
>what are you talking about?!)
Ok you could have said: "I am sure you have a nice kitchen. Let´s go to have a look at your kitchen" See the only way to f.close her is to have her away from the place she gets attention.. if she refuses isolation in spite of a very self-confident approach from you that means she will be there all the night fishing for attention and "maybe" go for the sex .. or go home alone.
>THE AMOG SCENE : then I fluff talk but she kept looking >around and "whsperer amog" comes to side he doesnt know >her, whisperes in her ear she looks at me and she laughs >and looks at him...
Well she is playing the field for attention. See, remember this: for women and especially of the Freak type attention is far more important than sex.
You need to remember on what she focuses in her game..
>I then interupt and introduce myslef ..he doesnt comply >and walks off but keeps looking at her while he is playing >darts ...
>I start preping and SOI, she then starts feeling tension from >getting all female attention from the venue and she keeps >looking at pool table and darts side while Im talking to her...
>I then say " HEY! look at me Im talking to you! HELLO!" kind >of in a dominant way ( NOT SURE ITF THIS IS OK OR FUCK >UP)
>she says like "yes" she looks right at me ...I go into story on >female sex or natural women patter type improv I was doing >and
>I told her to "OK, lets go gt out of here"
>she was like " Im staying here sorry Im not thet type of girl"
She is fishing for attention. She is the same girl who told you that the bartender told he wants to fuck her and that she likes direct men.
So: she is cock teasing you. Using the sex hook to get attention..
>I was like " Shut up! shut up right now! I think your are >cute and want to be with you"
>whisperer taps on her shoulder to come play darts ...
>keeps whisperering again and I say "dude whats up man! " in >a pissed way a little but subcommunication of wtf are you >doing?!
>he wonders off but keeps looking...
>she looks at me hard eye contact like sexual tension >building but says
>" last time I had a one night stand I ended up in a >relationship , Im just going to play darts and pool with the >boys"
Ok she wants to make sure that if she has sex you will not become the jealous possessive boy who stalks her..
amoggs came to check in and say "is everything alright?" I said yes and she just looked and he left but kept leering...
>I said " Do you want to come with me? I really like to fuck >you in the ass" and smiled with a smirk ala benicio del toro >in traffic
>she stared at me for congruence test and said
>"I'd really like that ...but Im not going to do that "
Ok she told you plain that she is enjoying the teasing game she is doing in the bar and the attention of the boys and having fun cock teasing guys.
Next time a girl tries to cock tease you with sex what you have to do is to shift the game to something boring and neutral like financial news and politics and then escalate on her with your kino without saying a word about sex.
She asks: "What you are doing?" when you touch her hand
You say: "I think next year the financial forecast is getting better" and put your hand on her ass..
If you do not verbalize SEX or anything else she will be forced to submit to kino of push you away which will ruin her need for communication and need for cock teasing you..
>" So, Im going to go play pool now.."
>I was like " You are soo full of shit ; ) " and I left...kindah >of upset and yet didnt pull....
Now nice to be cock teased.. next time you will be better with cock teasers.
Cheers, Franco
http://www.francoseduction.com/manual-of-seduction
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