Im abit in amindfuck but talking to Franco seem simple yet at times very deep in terms of true understanding.
the guy is a true expert.
think talking with micheal jordan to reach to his level.
talked from
innergame
neediness
calibration
responsabilities
betaisation.
the guy is fucking brilliant.
Friday, April 30, 2010
Neediness management revisited- neediness and keeping social calibration healthy
To be a free man with a good inner game you must learn to manage your neediness well
I am willing to share with you this free knowledge about neediness.
Neediness management is essential to be a successful seducer and even more essential to have good relationships with women.
The distinction between biological and psychological, body and mind does not exist in reality. All of these happen together, as a whole.
This is true for neediness, too.
If you try to understand neediness by considering it only a psychological . issue you will never understand it fully and you will never be able to manage it.
Neediness is first of all a biological, physical phenomenon and not only an abstract psychological problem.
The brain has a biological rewarding/punishing system, which – by the means of hormones and neurotransmitters like endorphins, dopamine, serotonin – rewards us by giving us pleasure any time we do something which is essential for the survival of the individual and the species.
Such things are for example moving, running (hunting, fighting,escaping), having sex (children), eating sugar ( essential for the brain )The same system punishes us with pain if we do something which is potentially not useful for the individual and the species.
Neediness exists for a positive evolutionary purpose and the brain maintains it. Without neediness no children would be born, we would be merciless and rational 100% Alpha creatures and we would end up killing each other until the survival of only one.
Empathy is one of the feature of neediness = “I know how you feel” versus “I get what I want”
The human child is needy as definition and remains such for long years after the birth.
Managing neediness is smart. Denying neediness and fighting against is foolish. You cannot fight a biological feature of the brain. You have to manage it.
Neediness management is the group of skills a seducer uses to be non needy and manage his neediness so that it serves what he wants instead of neediness controlling the seducer himself.
It is the difference between properly riding a horse and a wild horse out of the control of his rider.
So if you get into the negative mindset of “I must get rid of this neediness” you will hit the head in the wall of your bachelor pad, do stupid things like take drugs, alcohol, gamble, over eat and get attached to the “tits” of some long-term relationships of yours and at the end of the day you will be betaised.
You cannot fight against your own brain but the good news is that you can successfully manage your brain.
Neediness management means awareness of your needs so that you can manage them in the direction you want. The successful strategy is the same like in judo: winning the enemy by softly using it s strength.
And now some practical advice.
I will give here extensive advice on neediness management so that you will be able to never be betalsed,
Keep your health and happiness good and get always what you want.
Socializing
The human brain is wired to socialize in order to increase the chances of survival. We are clearly social, group animals.
Fighting against this instinct results in increased neediness because being social is biologically wired in our brain. Some group psychoanalysts go so far to believe that there is no mind without the group.
There are studies made on prisoners of war which seem to confirm what these psychoanalysts believe.
It was asked from them for research purposes which is the worst kind of torture. It was asked from them for research purposes which is the worst kind of torture.
All of them seemed to agree that the worst one is totally isolating the prisoner.
One of them survived isolation by drawing on the wall of his prison an animal, giving the animal a name and by talking to it.
Betaised males coming out of divorces may be at worst in a very bad state of social isolation with extremely increased degree of neediness.
One of the core features of the process of betaising and one-itis is when the female of our species uses the usually bad awareness most of the males of our species have of their emotional needs – paradoxically often the strongest ones ! – to make their need for socializing completely satisfied by her, the children and asocial network of her own.
This usually begins with “why don t you open up to me?” or “I want you to be sweet to me” and “my girlfriend Mary noticed I was so sad because we did not buy that car”
This usually brings to him having a social network totally controlled by her.
To avoid an increase in neediness keep on constantly several social circles of yours so that your brain inducted need for socializing is never invested in one person only and one social circle only.
If you have ONSs (one night stands), FBs, (fuck buddies) MLTRs,(multiple long-term relationships) LTRs (exclusive long-term relationships) or are married never make of these the only source of satisfaction of your brain´s need for socializing.
Instead:Instead:
Manage your needs and spread your investments!
MENTAL STATE SHIFTS
In the case you ended up into social isolation you may enter a state of anxiety, feelings of being worthless, guilt, depression. Before you raise your hand to drink the first beer, call your one itis, ask your LTR why she is late or sniff your cocaine realize that your brain is signaling- by lowering your endorphin levels and other hormonal changes – the fact that by being alone you are in danger.
What you need here is not to call your one itis or get drunk. You need to give to your brain something telegraphing to it that you are again on the right track in matters of survival and the brain will raise the endorphins promptly again.
As a rule Socializing= High Endorphins = Good State
and
Isolation= Low Endorphins = Bad State.
Anyway there is an important side note: the nature and quality of the social interactions you have are very important.
As a rule:
Isolation = Low endorphins = Bad State.
Bad Social Interaction = Bad State= Even worse than isolation (Guys in relationships remember this!)
Good Social Interaction = Good State ! Better than Isolation !
To achieve good mental state shift you need to slowly condition your brain and give it evidence that you are in social interaction. This is similar to what happens when you do yoga breathing exercises and you calm down. You begin to influence your mind starting from the body
To achieve the mental state shift you need to acknowledge that in isolation your mental state changes compared to what it is to when you are socializing. Actually what happens in your body is so subtle and unconscious that I would say simply assume that your mental state is different when you are in isolation compared to what it is when you are socializing.
So to effect your mental state positively get the fuck out of the house!
Smile and say “hi” to the people around you, talk in an non weird way to the people about whatever comes to your mind. What you say is not important as long as it is positively framed, friendly and non threatening, While you talk to people you will slowly notice a sense of well being coming.
This is due to a positive shift in endorphins levels (other neurotransmitters involved are dopamine and serotonin ) and slowly brings your brain into the wanted state.
This can require – depending on what person you are and how long you have been isolated or worse isolated in a bad relationship – from a few minutes to some day.
So persist, don t give up!
How this effects positively neediness? How this effects positively neediness?
When you learn to:
Use socializing as a way to influence your own state. Use socializing as a way to influence your own state.
Quickly detect and next bad interaction with negative people.
You will be managing the need your brain biologically has of relating to the individuals of the same species but in a way controlled by you.
Without the management your need will increase, your mind will slowly go into a state of contact starvation and that will make of you an easy target for being betaised by women in relationships and for any kind of manipulative woman you meet on the path of your love relationships.
Uptime& Downtime
Your brain can shift between two states:
Uptime is when you are all the time in touch with the outer world by using your senses.
Downtime is when you think, when you withdraw into your inner world. For example while I am writing this I am in downtime.
While having for sure the important meaning of having you to focus on creativeness, scientific and philosophical thinking, task solving and so on staying too much in downtime is bad and it increases your neediness.
The reason is that the more you stay in downtime the more you tend to withdraw from social contacts. Withdrawing from social contacts slowly increases the brain s need to have rapport, contact with other people and makes you needy.
So to manage neediness you gotta give the brain it´s dose of good social contact in a managed way.
Women do this instinctively all the time. Go out to the town and look around. You will see women sitting in sets of two taking care that their brain gets the proper dose of social contact.
Usually they keep a pretty superficial relationship with the girlfriends and they take care that the “therapy session” with the girlfriends – while sometimes touching deep issues – never gets really serious.
They also make sure to spread their emotional investments as widely as possible into different persons. That seems to be needy from them but actually it is the opposite: an extremely smart strategy to manage their own neediness so that they do not really need anyone emotionally.
THE NATURE AND QUALITY OF THE SOCIAL CONTACTS.
Is extremely important.
If you are in downtime and socially isolated you become needy and get into a downward spiral. If you try to get out of the social isolation but do not choose your social contacts wisely that will increase your neediness even more.
At worse you may end up in a situation where you feel anxious and needy when you are alone and anxious and needy when you are socializing due to the bad quality of the contacts you have.
Energy vampires are a reality! They do exist out there and are ready to suck your psychic blood.
Energy vampires are often masochists who enjoy suffering and having negative mind frames.
You can detect the energy vampires by detecting the number of negative mind frames with a masochistic content in their talks.
Examples of the sickness and the medicine for it.
Woman: “I have such a fat ass. I will never get a boyfriend.” Seducer: “Sorry.. suddenly I got a terrible headache. I think I need to go. Let s get back to this another time. You are cute!”
= POLITE NEXT!
Which means you are never going to meet her again!
Male friend:”You know. I am so envious of you. I see how you can seduce women all the time. I would like to be so good as you are…”
Seducer: “Well you know. There are guys who have a lot of knowledge about seducing women, meet some of them, if you get there and work hard you will be slowly able to do the same…”
Male friend:”Seducing women? You gotta be kidding! Those guys are totally immoral! Manipulating women in such a way!”
Seducer:”Man, suddenly I feel a strange headache. I think I need some rest. Lets get back to it another time, ok?”
= POLITE NEXT!
Which means you are going to change your wingman into someone more positive and less envious of you!
It is not that the seducer would like to be “bad” and “asocial.” He is aware of how negative frames effect his mind by increasing neediness and spoiling the state.
He is only protecting himself.
It is about survival.
Words effect the brain !
In situations like the above the healthier choice is simply to bring our own ass to a different venue!
So as a rule next energy vampires and fill your social network with interesting people, spread your emotional investments and that will help you into good neediness management.
SKIN CONTACT
Skin contact, kino (not necessarily sexual!) with other member of the species is good!
Why?
Skin contact, kino has a profound positive effect on your endorphins level and makes you feel good.
There are many animal species that are constantly close to each other when they move in groups and even at closer contact when sleeping.
This is a biological mechanism ruled by nature. There are studies where small doses of morphine ( it acts on endorphins ) reduce the separation anxiety in animals.
So the opiate system of the brain is largely used by nature as a reward system to have us do things which help survival.
Nature wants skin contact and socializing for survival purposes. It has biological basis. Have you ever been touched by other guys so much like when you were in the Army?
There is a reason for it.
Go to watch the movie “Save Private Ryan” by Steven Spielberg. At the end of the movie Private Ryan just gets to know that his brother died inaction.
A comrade is keeping him on his chest like he would be his mother.
So here there is ground for neediness management: you are all born by human mother and you cannot deny the need for physical contact.
Through physical contact you were fed when you were newborn.
The married man who has no social network and lives with a wife who denies sex and affection from him and has betaised him is at risk for great neediness!
Slowly he gives up all the physical contact (also non sexual!) in the fear of being rejected sexually and his neediness ( due to low endorphin levels!) skyrockets and he can be manipulated even more while the process brings him to a downward spiral.
How to manage your need for contact
When meeting girls touch them early on and touch them a lot. Make sure they touch you a lot. In you are not in an exclusive relationships keep MLTRs
(Multiple Long-Term Relationships) with sweet girls who touch you alot.
Get a lot of physical contact! Get a lot of physical contact!
Never do the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) thing of staying in aLTR ( Exclusive Long-Term Relationship) with a woman who is not able to accept your humanity and link physical contact with sex.
Never spend your time with women who are emotionally cold and distant.
A QUALITY OF THE MIND
The need for something or someone recognizing the existence of the mind itself is a feature of the mind.
What good service a dog coming to the door does to you in the periods of life you live alone? It tells to you:. I recognize that you exist!
The mind cannot work well without reflection. It gets into a spiral of unbearable tension. That s what women do when they sit in sets of 2 or 3 at the town. They discharge the emotional tension.
There is a need of the mind for reflection.
I make a large use of animals and fetishes to manage my own neediness.I have had in the last years two Doberman s: Terminator and Conan. They are both gone, sadly.
At the moment I have a couple of cats: Casanova and Safire.
Casanova comes to the door to acknowledge me when I get in.
I also have fetishes: a dog made of wool I have, I call him Transit. It comes playfully from psychoanalysis. It comes from the term: Transitional object.
The transitional object is an object a 1-2 years old child keeps as a substitute of the mother. Well guys you will be surprised but when Franco was not married yet and was traveling around the world on his long hunting expeditions the first thing he saw in the morning on his bed was Transit.
I am now on travel, going home. When I will walk through the door there will be on my bed Transit, staring at me. The need of the mind of being recognized will be satisfied.
This is neediness management. By becoming good in it you can practically manage 100% your neediness in all your relationships with women so that it can be zero level towards any woman, no matter how hot.
FALLING IN LOVE
Falling in love is an organic (biological) psychosis the purpose of which is to keep two individuals long enough together to guarantee pregnancy to happen and the care of the child long enough for the child to survive.
I wish I would have known this when I was 17 years old!
Falling in love may make you badly needy. And this is bad, bad, bad!
Anyway falling in love is a very pleasant experience but I would say you will need all your seducer skills to go through it without gettingbetaised.
The most beautiful metaphor about falling in love and being betaised comes from Homer`s wonderful poem The Odyssey in the scene of Odysseus and the Siren.
Odysseus orders his sailors to tie him to the ship so he can hear the singing of the Sirens and see them. His men have their eyes covered and their ears filled with cotton.
The price for not resisting the singing of the Sirens is the irresistible wish to jump into the sea to be with them and be eaten by these seductive creatures half women and half fishes.
Falling in love resembles for the high status Alpha male and seducer the same thing like in the Odyssey.
Average frustrated chumps of any kind sit at home in the armchairs. High status males need hunting and wars of conquest.
Falling in love is for them a danger.
To be able to be an Alpha male and a seducer one has to be able to enjoy the pleasures of falling in love but at the same time be tied so firmly to the ship of his own skills and well being so that he has to be able to ride the neediness connected with it.
Neediness is like a tiger your ride in order to avoid her riding you.
It is a wonderful experience. I have been there several times.
If I would say I was never hurt I would be a lier. But I came out of it and I won.
Let s say that being good in neediness management and having good seducer skills and mental state control is the ship which saves you from being betaised by the falling in love while enjoying it s fruits fully.
ANGER
Anger makes you needy when:
You are not able to be in touch with it in yourself. In a word: you still are a nice guy.
When you feel it but do not express it fully. In a word “half anger” makes you needy.
Full blown anger frees you from neediness.
And with this I do not mean you bad guys should smash everything around and break people and objects!
To avoid neediness you must:
Either avoid conflict situations as much as you can or
If you have to get pissed off then be a man, make a decision, get the fucking pissed off and let people feel that under their skin !
A chronic and continuous situation of “half anger” makes you needy like hell and damages your health.
ENJOY FULLY YOUR ANGER IF YOU HAVE TO!
One of the most betaising things women do is to push the buttons of a guy`s angerwhile having him into a situation where he cannot fully express it. while having him into a situation where he cannot fully express it.
For example on the work place:
Girl:I really like your eyes ( showing naked legs)
Guy: (touches her)
Girl: .We are on the work place. I will report this!.
Now to avoid neediness you gotta have the skills and decide either to not touch her and if she touches you tell her “hands off the merchandise!” or if you touch her then tell her that “Please report me. You can blow job me in a court of law later on” and touch her ass and don`t give a shit about the consequences!
Being a man frees you from neediness. No matter which are the consequences! Being a man frees you from neediness. No matter which are the consequences!
Avoid”half anger” It makes you needy. Get pissed off and face the consequences or learn to control yourself and manager you anger internally!
Ideally when you learn inner state control you are able to avoid conflict situation in advance because you are able to next negative people out of your life!
SEX
Get always a lot of sex. Being without sex makes you needy! Don t ask for sex.
Just take it!
Sex stimulates your endorphin system positively and raises your testosterone. Your brain is built so to punish you by lowering endorphins if you do not get sex enough and reward you if you get lot of sex. reward you if you get lot of sex.
You want to know how big is your sex drive?
Take your actual sex drive and multiply it x 5 and you will get a figure closer to reality. reality.
If a woman does not like sex next her!
She is a danger for your health!
MEETING WOMEN AND SEDUCING THEM
Even if you are in an exclusive LTR keep always up your seduction skills!.
Pick-up is a social interaction and gives you a good state of mind and frees you from neediness.
Pickup is the art of bringing the woman from the pickup venue to the isolated venue (in our culture in most of the cases this is = having sex with the woman).Seduction is the art of having her emotionally and physically attracted to you.
Keep those skills always up!
If you are in an exclusive relationship and want to be faithful that is perfectly ok and you can practice the art of bringing women “close” to wanting to jump into the bed with you without having sex with them.
You are having lot of sex with your woman after all! Women with all their make-up, short skirts and seductive body language keep their own seductive skills on all the time.
So why would you not do the same?
There are many women being seductive all the time and still faithful to their husbands/boyfriends.
If you are in an exclusive relationship simply pick-up women and bring them to “the edge” and then introduce them to your wingmen for the final sexual act.
It is important to keep up your hunting skills. That frees you from neediness in regard to any single female.
By being totally non needy and internally managing your own neediness you attract women everywhere, make your woman in the main relationship happy and stay Alpha!
Put your energy into business, pick-up, seduction and never enter a relationship where you are being made weaker !
I am willing to share with you this free knowledge about neediness.
Neediness management is essential to be a successful seducer and even more essential to have good relationships with women.
The distinction between biological and psychological, body and mind does not exist in reality. All of these happen together, as a whole.
This is true for neediness, too.
If you try to understand neediness by considering it only a psychological . issue you will never understand it fully and you will never be able to manage it.
Neediness is first of all a biological, physical phenomenon and not only an abstract psychological problem.
The brain has a biological rewarding/punishing system, which – by the means of hormones and neurotransmitters like endorphins, dopamine, serotonin – rewards us by giving us pleasure any time we do something which is essential for the survival of the individual and the species.
Such things are for example moving, running (hunting, fighting,escaping), having sex (children), eating sugar ( essential for the brain )The same system punishes us with pain if we do something which is potentially not useful for the individual and the species.
Neediness exists for a positive evolutionary purpose and the brain maintains it. Without neediness no children would be born, we would be merciless and rational 100% Alpha creatures and we would end up killing each other until the survival of only one.
Empathy is one of the feature of neediness = “I know how you feel” versus “I get what I want”
The human child is needy as definition and remains such for long years after the birth.
Managing neediness is smart. Denying neediness and fighting against is foolish. You cannot fight a biological feature of the brain. You have to manage it.
Neediness management is the group of skills a seducer uses to be non needy and manage his neediness so that it serves what he wants instead of neediness controlling the seducer himself.
It is the difference between properly riding a horse and a wild horse out of the control of his rider.
So if you get into the negative mindset of “I must get rid of this neediness” you will hit the head in the wall of your bachelor pad, do stupid things like take drugs, alcohol, gamble, over eat and get attached to the “tits” of some long-term relationships of yours and at the end of the day you will be betaised.
You cannot fight against your own brain but the good news is that you can successfully manage your brain.
Neediness management means awareness of your needs so that you can manage them in the direction you want. The successful strategy is the same like in judo: winning the enemy by softly using it s strength.
And now some practical advice.
I will give here extensive advice on neediness management so that you will be able to never be betalsed,
Keep your health and happiness good and get always what you want.
Socializing
The human brain is wired to socialize in order to increase the chances of survival. We are clearly social, group animals.
Fighting against this instinct results in increased neediness because being social is biologically wired in our brain. Some group psychoanalysts go so far to believe that there is no mind without the group.
There are studies made on prisoners of war which seem to confirm what these psychoanalysts believe.
It was asked from them for research purposes which is the worst kind of torture. It was asked from them for research purposes which is the worst kind of torture.
All of them seemed to agree that the worst one is totally isolating the prisoner.
One of them survived isolation by drawing on the wall of his prison an animal, giving the animal a name and by talking to it.
Betaised males coming out of divorces may be at worst in a very bad state of social isolation with extremely increased degree of neediness.
One of the core features of the process of betaising and one-itis is when the female of our species uses the usually bad awareness most of the males of our species have of their emotional needs – paradoxically often the strongest ones ! – to make their need for socializing completely satisfied by her, the children and asocial network of her own.
This usually begins with “why don t you open up to me?” or “I want you to be sweet to me” and “my girlfriend Mary noticed I was so sad because we did not buy that car”
This usually brings to him having a social network totally controlled by her.
To avoid an increase in neediness keep on constantly several social circles of yours so that your brain inducted need for socializing is never invested in one person only and one social circle only.
If you have ONSs (one night stands), FBs, (fuck buddies) MLTRs,(multiple long-term relationships) LTRs (exclusive long-term relationships) or are married never make of these the only source of satisfaction of your brain´s need for socializing.
Instead:Instead:
Manage your needs and spread your investments!
MENTAL STATE SHIFTS
In the case you ended up into social isolation you may enter a state of anxiety, feelings of being worthless, guilt, depression. Before you raise your hand to drink the first beer, call your one itis, ask your LTR why she is late or sniff your cocaine realize that your brain is signaling- by lowering your endorphin levels and other hormonal changes – the fact that by being alone you are in danger.
What you need here is not to call your one itis or get drunk. You need to give to your brain something telegraphing to it that you are again on the right track in matters of survival and the brain will raise the endorphins promptly again.
As a rule Socializing= High Endorphins = Good State
and
Isolation= Low Endorphins = Bad State.
Anyway there is an important side note: the nature and quality of the social interactions you have are very important.
As a rule:
Isolation = Low endorphins = Bad State.
Bad Social Interaction = Bad State= Even worse than isolation (Guys in relationships remember this!)
Good Social Interaction = Good State ! Better than Isolation !
To achieve good mental state shift you need to slowly condition your brain and give it evidence that you are in social interaction. This is similar to what happens when you do yoga breathing exercises and you calm down. You begin to influence your mind starting from the body
To achieve the mental state shift you need to acknowledge that in isolation your mental state changes compared to what it is to when you are socializing. Actually what happens in your body is so subtle and unconscious that I would say simply assume that your mental state is different when you are in isolation compared to what it is when you are socializing.
So to effect your mental state positively get the fuck out of the house!
Smile and say “hi” to the people around you, talk in an non weird way to the people about whatever comes to your mind. What you say is not important as long as it is positively framed, friendly and non threatening, While you talk to people you will slowly notice a sense of well being coming.
This is due to a positive shift in endorphins levels (other neurotransmitters involved are dopamine and serotonin ) and slowly brings your brain into the wanted state.
This can require – depending on what person you are and how long you have been isolated or worse isolated in a bad relationship – from a few minutes to some day.
So persist, don t give up!
How this effects positively neediness? How this effects positively neediness?
When you learn to:
Use socializing as a way to influence your own state. Use socializing as a way to influence your own state.
Quickly detect and next bad interaction with negative people.
You will be managing the need your brain biologically has of relating to the individuals of the same species but in a way controlled by you.
Without the management your need will increase, your mind will slowly go into a state of contact starvation and that will make of you an easy target for being betaised by women in relationships and for any kind of manipulative woman you meet on the path of your love relationships.
Uptime& Downtime
Your brain can shift between two states:
Uptime is when you are all the time in touch with the outer world by using your senses.
Downtime is when you think, when you withdraw into your inner world. For example while I am writing this I am in downtime.
While having for sure the important meaning of having you to focus on creativeness, scientific and philosophical thinking, task solving and so on staying too much in downtime is bad and it increases your neediness.
The reason is that the more you stay in downtime the more you tend to withdraw from social contacts. Withdrawing from social contacts slowly increases the brain s need to have rapport, contact with other people and makes you needy.
So to manage neediness you gotta give the brain it´s dose of good social contact in a managed way.
Women do this instinctively all the time. Go out to the town and look around. You will see women sitting in sets of two taking care that their brain gets the proper dose of social contact.
Usually they keep a pretty superficial relationship with the girlfriends and they take care that the “therapy session” with the girlfriends – while sometimes touching deep issues – never gets really serious.
They also make sure to spread their emotional investments as widely as possible into different persons. That seems to be needy from them but actually it is the opposite: an extremely smart strategy to manage their own neediness so that they do not really need anyone emotionally.
THE NATURE AND QUALITY OF THE SOCIAL CONTACTS.
Is extremely important.
If you are in downtime and socially isolated you become needy and get into a downward spiral. If you try to get out of the social isolation but do not choose your social contacts wisely that will increase your neediness even more.
At worse you may end up in a situation where you feel anxious and needy when you are alone and anxious and needy when you are socializing due to the bad quality of the contacts you have.
Energy vampires are a reality! They do exist out there and are ready to suck your psychic blood.
Energy vampires are often masochists who enjoy suffering and having negative mind frames.
You can detect the energy vampires by detecting the number of negative mind frames with a masochistic content in their talks.
Examples of the sickness and the medicine for it.
Woman: “I have such a fat ass. I will never get a boyfriend.” Seducer: “Sorry.. suddenly I got a terrible headache. I think I need to go. Let s get back to this another time. You are cute!”
= POLITE NEXT!
Which means you are never going to meet her again!
Male friend:”You know. I am so envious of you. I see how you can seduce women all the time. I would like to be so good as you are…”
Seducer: “Well you know. There are guys who have a lot of knowledge about seducing women, meet some of them, if you get there and work hard you will be slowly able to do the same…”
Male friend:”Seducing women? You gotta be kidding! Those guys are totally immoral! Manipulating women in such a way!”
Seducer:”Man, suddenly I feel a strange headache. I think I need some rest. Lets get back to it another time, ok?”
= POLITE NEXT!
Which means you are going to change your wingman into someone more positive and less envious of you!
It is not that the seducer would like to be “bad” and “asocial.” He is aware of how negative frames effect his mind by increasing neediness and spoiling the state.
He is only protecting himself.
It is about survival.
Words effect the brain !
In situations like the above the healthier choice is simply to bring our own ass to a different venue!
So as a rule next energy vampires and fill your social network with interesting people, spread your emotional investments and that will help you into good neediness management.
SKIN CONTACT
Skin contact, kino (not necessarily sexual!) with other member of the species is good!
Why?
Skin contact, kino has a profound positive effect on your endorphins level and makes you feel good.
There are many animal species that are constantly close to each other when they move in groups and even at closer contact when sleeping.
This is a biological mechanism ruled by nature. There are studies where small doses of morphine ( it acts on endorphins ) reduce the separation anxiety in animals.
So the opiate system of the brain is largely used by nature as a reward system to have us do things which help survival.
Nature wants skin contact and socializing for survival purposes. It has biological basis. Have you ever been touched by other guys so much like when you were in the Army?
There is a reason for it.
Go to watch the movie “Save Private Ryan” by Steven Spielberg. At the end of the movie Private Ryan just gets to know that his brother died inaction.
A comrade is keeping him on his chest like he would be his mother.
So here there is ground for neediness management: you are all born by human mother and you cannot deny the need for physical contact.
Through physical contact you were fed when you were newborn.
The married man who has no social network and lives with a wife who denies sex and affection from him and has betaised him is at risk for great neediness!
Slowly he gives up all the physical contact (also non sexual!) in the fear of being rejected sexually and his neediness ( due to low endorphin levels!) skyrockets and he can be manipulated even more while the process brings him to a downward spiral.
How to manage your need for contact
When meeting girls touch them early on and touch them a lot. Make sure they touch you a lot. In you are not in an exclusive relationships keep MLTRs
(Multiple Long-Term Relationships) with sweet girls who touch you alot.
Get a lot of physical contact! Get a lot of physical contact!
Never do the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) thing of staying in aLTR ( Exclusive Long-Term Relationship) with a woman who is not able to accept your humanity and link physical contact with sex.
Never spend your time with women who are emotionally cold and distant.
A QUALITY OF THE MIND
The need for something or someone recognizing the existence of the mind itself is a feature of the mind.
What good service a dog coming to the door does to you in the periods of life you live alone? It tells to you:. I recognize that you exist!
The mind cannot work well without reflection. It gets into a spiral of unbearable tension. That s what women do when they sit in sets of 2 or 3 at the town. They discharge the emotional tension.
There is a need of the mind for reflection.
I make a large use of animals and fetishes to manage my own neediness.I have had in the last years two Doberman s: Terminator and Conan. They are both gone, sadly.
At the moment I have a couple of cats: Casanova and Safire.
Casanova comes to the door to acknowledge me when I get in.
I also have fetishes: a dog made of wool I have, I call him Transit. It comes playfully from psychoanalysis. It comes from the term: Transitional object.
The transitional object is an object a 1-2 years old child keeps as a substitute of the mother. Well guys you will be surprised but when Franco was not married yet and was traveling around the world on his long hunting expeditions the first thing he saw in the morning on his bed was Transit.
I am now on travel, going home. When I will walk through the door there will be on my bed Transit, staring at me. The need of the mind of being recognized will be satisfied.
This is neediness management. By becoming good in it you can practically manage 100% your neediness in all your relationships with women so that it can be zero level towards any woman, no matter how hot.
FALLING IN LOVE
Falling in love is an organic (biological) psychosis the purpose of which is to keep two individuals long enough together to guarantee pregnancy to happen and the care of the child long enough for the child to survive.
I wish I would have known this when I was 17 years old!
Falling in love may make you badly needy. And this is bad, bad, bad!
Anyway falling in love is a very pleasant experience but I would say you will need all your seducer skills to go through it without gettingbetaised.
The most beautiful metaphor about falling in love and being betaised comes from Homer`s wonderful poem The Odyssey in the scene of Odysseus and the Siren.
Odysseus orders his sailors to tie him to the ship so he can hear the singing of the Sirens and see them. His men have their eyes covered and their ears filled with cotton.
The price for not resisting the singing of the Sirens is the irresistible wish to jump into the sea to be with them and be eaten by these seductive creatures half women and half fishes.
Falling in love resembles for the high status Alpha male and seducer the same thing like in the Odyssey.
Average frustrated chumps of any kind sit at home in the armchairs. High status males need hunting and wars of conquest.
Falling in love is for them a danger.
To be able to be an Alpha male and a seducer one has to be able to enjoy the pleasures of falling in love but at the same time be tied so firmly to the ship of his own skills and well being so that he has to be able to ride the neediness connected with it.
Neediness is like a tiger your ride in order to avoid her riding you.
It is a wonderful experience. I have been there several times.
If I would say I was never hurt I would be a lier. But I came out of it and I won.
Let s say that being good in neediness management and having good seducer skills and mental state control is the ship which saves you from being betaised by the falling in love while enjoying it s fruits fully.
ANGER
Anger makes you needy when:
You are not able to be in touch with it in yourself. In a word: you still are a nice guy.
When you feel it but do not express it fully. In a word “half anger” makes you needy.
Full blown anger frees you from neediness.
And with this I do not mean you bad guys should smash everything around and break people and objects!
To avoid neediness you must:
Either avoid conflict situations as much as you can or
If you have to get pissed off then be a man, make a decision, get the fucking pissed off and let people feel that under their skin !
A chronic and continuous situation of “half anger” makes you needy like hell and damages your health.
ENJOY FULLY YOUR ANGER IF YOU HAVE TO!
One of the most betaising things women do is to push the buttons of a guy`s angerwhile having him into a situation where he cannot fully express it. while having him into a situation where he cannot fully express it.
For example on the work place:
Girl:I really like your eyes ( showing naked legs)
Guy: (touches her)
Girl: .We are on the work place. I will report this!.
Now to avoid neediness you gotta have the skills and decide either to not touch her and if she touches you tell her “hands off the merchandise!” or if you touch her then tell her that “Please report me. You can blow job me in a court of law later on” and touch her ass and don`t give a shit about the consequences!
Being a man frees you from neediness. No matter which are the consequences! Being a man frees you from neediness. No matter which are the consequences!
Avoid”half anger” It makes you needy. Get pissed off and face the consequences or learn to control yourself and manager you anger internally!
Ideally when you learn inner state control you are able to avoid conflict situation in advance because you are able to next negative people out of your life!
SEX
Get always a lot of sex. Being without sex makes you needy! Don t ask for sex.
Just take it!
Sex stimulates your endorphin system positively and raises your testosterone. Your brain is built so to punish you by lowering endorphins if you do not get sex enough and reward you if you get lot of sex. reward you if you get lot of sex.
You want to know how big is your sex drive?
Take your actual sex drive and multiply it x 5 and you will get a figure closer to reality. reality.
If a woman does not like sex next her!
She is a danger for your health!
MEETING WOMEN AND SEDUCING THEM
Even if you are in an exclusive LTR keep always up your seduction skills!.
Pick-up is a social interaction and gives you a good state of mind and frees you from neediness.
Pickup is the art of bringing the woman from the pickup venue to the isolated venue (in our culture in most of the cases this is = having sex with the woman).Seduction is the art of having her emotionally and physically attracted to you.
Keep those skills always up!
If you are in an exclusive relationship and want to be faithful that is perfectly ok and you can practice the art of bringing women “close” to wanting to jump into the bed with you without having sex with them.
You are having lot of sex with your woman after all! Women with all their make-up, short skirts and seductive body language keep their own seductive skills on all the time.
So why would you not do the same?
There are many women being seductive all the time and still faithful to their husbands/boyfriends.
If you are in an exclusive relationship simply pick-up women and bring them to “the edge” and then introduce them to your wingmen for the final sexual act.
It is important to keep up your hunting skills. That frees you from neediness in regard to any single female.
By being totally non needy and internally managing your own neediness you attract women everywhere, make your woman in the main relationship happy and stay Alpha!
Put your energy into business, pick-up, seduction and never enter a relationship where you are being made weaker !
Thursday, April 29, 2010
Aaron Sleazy my new hero talks reality
Once you accept that it's a matter of location, looks, resources, and popularity and you specifically address those issues, then getting laid is pretty easy. I'm arguing against the idea of game as the "great equalizer".
The "human behavior stuff" is nothing special. For instance, there are arguably hundreds of posts on "neediness" and how to avoid it, but after you've fucked a few girls this will take care of itself. The issue here is that people try to figure out everything beforehand, but if you instead go out, fail, go out, fail again, then "get lucky", fail some more, and slowly rack up your lays, all those issues will sort out themselves and in a completely natural way that won't make you weird -- unlike the MM dude that does "backturns" and "body rocking".
TVA isn't selling anything and I'm offering a very reasonably priced paperback and one-on-ones/seminars occasionally. However, I don't market it as some kind of "magic bullet".
The "human behavior stuff" is nothing special. For instance, there are arguably hundreds of posts on "neediness" and how to avoid it, but after you've fucked a few girls this will take care of itself. The issue here is that people try to figure out everything beforehand, but if you instead go out, fail, go out, fail again, then "get lucky", fail some more, and slowly rack up your lays, all those issues will sort out themselves and in a completely natural way that won't make you weird -- unlike the MM dude that does "backturns" and "body rocking".
TVA isn't selling anything and I'm offering a very reasonably priced paperback and one-on-ones/seminars occasionally. However, I don't market it as some kind of "magic bullet".
Muscle Memory by Don Rod
This is a special post by Don Rod, a good friend of mine.
Definately I cannot hesitate that bodybuilding is linked to sucess.
diet and workout are like reading and doing.
Very related.
Here it is ..............
Muscle Memory and How to get the best out of your work-out routine.
Muscle memory is described as a type of movement that muscles become familiar with over time.
For Example, you can walk, kick and jump without much focus on the actual activity.
Of course, you've been practicing the coordination of those processes since you were two, and the neural pathways gave the muscles a sense of muscle memory).
Whatever.
You have a simple weekly work-out routine (or whatever your work-out routine is) :-
Monday - Chest/Bicep/triceps
Tuesday - cardio/abs/core
Wednesday - Shoulders/Legs
Thursday - off
Friday - Back/Triceps/biceps
Saturday - off
Sunday - off
Your body is going to remember that, on monday you do chest/bis/tris (lmao) , tuesday you do cardio/abs/core training
and on wednesday your going to do shoulders/legs, fucking week after week after week.
The muscles are going to remember your routine and become more relaxed.
So, I suggest every week from now, you change your work-out routine's order and add some new work-outs. It will shock your muscles, increasing the effectiveness of your work-outs.
Just like if you tell a women your going to call this woman at this time and date, rather than randomly surprising her with your amazing charm and wit.
Don Rod
don.rodmoore@gmail.com
Definately I cannot hesitate that bodybuilding is linked to sucess.
diet and workout are like reading and doing.
Very related.
Here it is ..............
Muscle Memory and How to get the best out of your work-out routine.
Muscle memory is described as a type of movement that muscles become familiar with over time.
For Example, you can walk, kick and jump without much focus on the actual activity.
Of course, you've been practicing the coordination of those processes since you were two, and the neural pathways gave the muscles a sense of muscle memory).
Whatever.
You have a simple weekly work-out routine (or whatever your work-out routine is) :-
Monday - Chest/Bicep/triceps
Tuesday - cardio/abs/core
Wednesday - Shoulders/Legs
Thursday - off
Friday - Back/Triceps/biceps
Saturday - off
Sunday - off
Your body is going to remember that, on monday you do chest/bis/tris (lmao) , tuesday you do cardio/abs/core training
and on wednesday your going to do shoulders/legs, fucking week after week after week.
The muscles are going to remember your routine and become more relaxed.
So, I suggest every week from now, you change your work-out routine's order and add some new work-outs. It will shock your muscles, increasing the effectiveness of your work-outs.
Just like if you tell a women your going to call this woman at this time and date, rather than randomly surprising her with your amazing charm and wit.
Don Rod
don.rodmoore@gmail.com
work on voice projection
I remembered the russian said my voice was different.
alley cat has a smooth voice and I imitated Topo's voice...
Sexual rapport modelling seems tight!
I read a little in beginning and has straight forward stuff.
I changed my voice and sound like Sinn.
i have to deepedn the voice and sound more in control , I stopeed the overexplaining thing and now its the voice I have to work on.
That being said... record myself...that being said.
Hammer is a fag!
alley cat has a smooth voice and I imitated Topo's voice...
Sexual rapport modelling seems tight!
I read a little in beginning and has straight forward stuff.
I changed my voice and sound like Sinn.
i have to deepedn the voice and sound more in control , I stopeed the overexplaining thing and now its the voice I have to work on.
That being said... record myself...that being said.
Hammer is a fag!
Julian Foxx does it again...great stuff that works
I'm busy with organizing myself Im going out tonight for stripper game after gym.
Thanks A- for that book reference I will check it out, get stressed over it at times w getting things done.
I was looking into millionair habits by brian tracy, great stuff but didnt finish it all.
Mark "Entropy" actually lives off that book he was in argentina now he is in europe coaching.
He taught me chemistry comfort.....
I was in the midst of breaking down my game since I wrote the FR's from the past but I never told myself how I was doing it.
I became uncoincious once you get the ball rolling....once I got here to miami, I left game for awhile and got sloppy and forgot how I did it.
so Im reversing what I did and have a better intuition about it.This is what I got, FINALLY:
I flow by using her emotions and push the limits of moving things forward and making this fall in place for sex.
Basically a magicians force of a game leading using different types of emotions. creating all types of reactions from her.
So I get idea what and how to get her in different state, kindah like manipulating her emotional control since she is being reactive to you.
I didnt come up with this, Alleycat did this shit unconciously since he works on peoples mouths he controls their anxiety so he can calm them and get them to comply without force and he can work on their motuh quickly....he sees so many like 30-40 patients that he practices that phisosophy.
this guy here the guy that challenged Neil, he touches on it...
http://www.supernaturalseduction.com/TheSystem/
Its Sick cause I do what he explains but he does it more consistent of funny and sexual at the same time so he does both...ofcourse it accelerates based on her comfort thershold.
Serious game this Julian guy has.
this is punishment reward pavlov ,psycology based game.
this is next level gentlemen....
I reckognize this is pure solid game.
-Sandros
PS: Im going to try to donwload this intro cause its so valuable information.Stuff I got used to doing with the mix of B-H-R-R mixed in with
funny and sexual.
Thanks A- for that book reference I will check it out, get stressed over it at times w getting things done.
I was looking into millionair habits by brian tracy, great stuff but didnt finish it all.
Mark "Entropy" actually lives off that book he was in argentina now he is in europe coaching.
He taught me chemistry comfort.....
I was in the midst of breaking down my game since I wrote the FR's from the past but I never told myself how I was doing it.
I became uncoincious once you get the ball rolling....once I got here to miami, I left game for awhile and got sloppy and forgot how I did it.
so Im reversing what I did and have a better intuition about it.This is what I got, FINALLY:
I flow by using her emotions and push the limits of moving things forward and making this fall in place for sex.
Basically a magicians force of a game leading using different types of emotions. creating all types of reactions from her.
So I get idea what and how to get her in different state, kindah like manipulating her emotional control since she is being reactive to you.
I didnt come up with this, Alleycat did this shit unconciously since he works on peoples mouths he controls their anxiety so he can calm them and get them to comply without force and he can work on their motuh quickly....he sees so many like 30-40 patients that he practices that phisosophy.
this guy here the guy that challenged Neil, he touches on it...
http://www.supernaturalseduction.com/TheSystem/
Its Sick cause I do what he explains but he does it more consistent of funny and sexual at the same time so he does both...ofcourse it accelerates based on her comfort thershold.
Serious game this Julian guy has.
this is punishment reward pavlov ,psycology based game.
this is next level gentlemen....
I reckognize this is pure solid game.
-Sandros
PS: Im going to try to donwload this intro cause its so valuable information.Stuff I got used to doing with the mix of B-H-R-R mixed in with
funny and sexual.
thoughts on male- female roles and sex
Sex is aggressive act...like Ozzie said in his speech of rsd transformations.
So I was reviewing advanced psycology and influence and it all comes to sex.
when you look at a dating site, all you will see is women who want to have sex.
1-biological reasons to have sex
2-society "dating" .lol and feminine role to find a mate....it depends on you to lead.
of course I will talk on screening after I speak with Franco and work up my balance in my Life as well.
screening to see if worth investing and altering my game to get her into me and have sex and screening to accelarate process as well.
So I was looking at BDSM by nina harltey and guide to swinging and threesomes also.
As always nina's begining is so female psycology on point I usually steal her material as a sexual frame.
Im going to review how CJ gets or how to make your own frames.
with frames is my goal to passive get her to accept my point of view and getting her emotionally invested.
then move forward calirating her threshold and moving sexually forward.
pace and lead- mix of push pull :)
So I was reviewing advanced psycology and influence and it all comes to sex.
when you look at a dating site, all you will see is women who want to have sex.
1-biological reasons to have sex
2-society "dating" .lol and feminine role to find a mate....it depends on you to lead.
of course I will talk on screening after I speak with Franco and work up my balance in my Life as well.
screening to see if worth investing and altering my game to get her into me and have sex and screening to accelarate process as well.
So I was looking at BDSM by nina harltey and guide to swinging and threesomes also.
As always nina's begining is so female psycology on point I usually steal her material as a sexual frame.
Im going to review how CJ gets or how to make your own frames.
with frames is my goal to passive get her to accept my point of view and getting her emotionally invested.
then move forward calirating her threshold and moving sexually forward.
pace and lead- mix of push pull :)
Tuesday, April 27, 2010
Model experiment--Mickey rourke in 91/2 weeks
I seen comments on youtube on scenes with mickey rourke and it shows how you should be with a woman after youve slept with them.
HERE ARE WOMEN COMMENTS:
Mickey Rourke was damn sexy in this film.
obsessed with this movie too will always be :D
very freudian scene
he's perfect lover in this movie
There is a man, I'm in love with... this is my fantasy about me and him.... It will never end... in my fantasy...
thats my man XD
rock it saint catherine!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (women commenting about sex at a church roof top)
me encanta muchisimo esta pelicula no hay naada igual.... 3 weeks ago
the guy is similar to entropy.
I want to model him.
also great movies on female psycology and one night stand is kim cattral movie
live nude girls
great stuff.
HERE ARE WOMEN COMMENTS:
Mickey Rourke was damn sexy in this film.
obsessed with this movie too will always be :D
very freudian scene
he's perfect lover in this movie
There is a man, I'm in love with... this is my fantasy about me and him.... It will never end... in my fantasy...
thats my man XD
rock it saint catherine!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (women commenting about sex at a church roof top)
me encanta muchisimo esta pelicula no hay naada igual.... 3 weeks ago
the guy is similar to entropy.
I want to model him.
also great movies on female psycology and one night stand is kim cattral movie
live nude girls
great stuff.
BT spiking NLP routine and sex is exciting
I got to read the preview of 10SSA and love the intro and theory.
Talking more than 10 seconds it is really talking too much...its like fucking in the same position and staying there the whole time, kindah boring sex.lol.....
Oh shit I just came up with this here M.
"Hey dont you hate it when guys just talk talk talk boring shit ? I mean can you IMAGINE how booring they are in bed... I mean with ME , (use both thumbs index finger towards you like you are a fashionista) it has to be EXCITING !
isnt that they way it should be? she noods
I mean ALL HOT ,PASIONATE like a pump of adrenaline rush of full pleasure all over
(you shake her like pumping BT) , right?
Yeah, I think sex is important too especially in a relationship , too bad alot of guys tend to get needy and make it a boring routine "
Talking more than 10 seconds it is really talking too much...its like fucking in the same position and staying there the whole time, kindah boring sex.lol.....
Oh shit I just came up with this here M.
"Hey dont you hate it when guys just talk talk talk boring shit ? I mean can you IMAGINE how booring they are in bed... I mean with ME , (use both thumbs index finger towards you like you are a fashionista) it has to be EXCITING !
isnt that they way it should be? she noods
I mean ALL HOT ,PASIONATE like a pump of adrenaline rush of full pleasure all over
(you shake her like pumping BT) , right?
Yeah, I think sex is important too especially in a relationship , too bad alot of guys tend to get needy and make it a boring routine "
continued arrousal - D-boy told me once and Ecks told me also, others FRanco ,60, sleazy,Gunwitch, bradp, RJ'stuff
ECKS was told by saffron to do this in 2008-
he told me to read love systems routines manual, and stuff by gunwitch. at the same time, i'm trying to not get too bogged down reading all this shit. then i'm just in my head all the time. magic bullets is good stuff though, their phone section helped me out.
D-boy told me this :
check out franco's stuff
Aaron Sleazy
Brad P
D-boy said :
Quote:
attraction comfort seduction
This is fine, I do it as well.
I want to propose a few concepts to you that are crucial.. tell me how you apply them, and if you do apply them or what you think of them:
- she should want it more
- you have a life, aside from the community and the girl you want
- the girl is SECONDARY to your priorities
- you feel the same way during a PU with a hot girl, as you would with making a new guy friend... you just let things roll naturally, and don't try to force anything (aka, investing too much)
- you VIBE. I define vibe like this:
vibe is when both of you are equally invested in one another (aka, you both like eachother), but the woman is slightly investing more into you. It could be as simple as, she is investing on your withdrawals.
- escalate on IOIs from women.
Quote:
but I run deep comfort and go sexual
how does a typical PU go for you?
what is the location, how long are you in set, what are you saying, what are they doing that signifies they are interested in you, how do you go sexual, etc?
I suggest you go to www.fastseduction.com and read:
zarathustra_fi archive
Sleazy archive
Brad P. archive
also, I suggest you stop thinking of a pick up in a linear way.. i.e.: attract, comfort, seduce.
think of it as one, with different pathways.
Quote:
and they get buyers remorse or feel they connected ad just a friend.
elaborate on the buyers remorse.
if you are getting the friend thing, you are probably being to nice and are not being a THREAT.
as Franco says, leaders:
imprudent (they do not give a fuck)
can make small rapport with people
do you feel do you that?
imprudence can be many things.. negs, C&F, slapping a girls ass, etc, wearing black nails, etc.
Quote:
before that i was doing just attraction and qualifiacation and chit caht and try to close.
this is what you should do:
structure an opportunity for a woman where you put your cards out on the table allowing her to accept, or decline.
if she declines, move on. do not try to figure out how to make it work.
this will also save you a lot of time.
How do you do this?
I suggest you drop a lot of planning, or gaming and just understand the fundamentals (which I suspect you already do) and apply them.
so, go out, have fun, treat all girls like little children, have minimal expectations, and see where the night goes, etc.
Quote:
I know how to physically escalate i sometimes over do it.
yeah, I've done this to. don't worry about it.
whenever I feel the desire to do too much, I always think:
"WHO WANTS IT MORE?"
if the answer is me, I withdraw to save my cards.
Quote:
"its better to over escalate then not escalate" jeffy rsd
yes, in the proper circumstance.
it is better to stick a hand down a girls pants if she grabs your cock, rather than just hug her or something...
that is the context of his statement.
Quote:
they all lose interest..its like Im finally getting female friends or female aquantences but Im not getting laid or its going nowhere..like an orbiter.
you probably are investing too much.
tell me more about a typical PU for you.
-D-Boy__________________
--------------------------------------------------
Other guys are saying gunwitch as per asian playboy
Sleazy and 60 work plus Franco all are congruent.
I will check out their style, sleazy and 60 and gunwitch.
I will down load RJ sexual arrousal cause he uses SRT
briefly and anchours.....
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If you are just starting out with Speed Seduction®; if you are still learning from the required Basic or Delux Home Study Course, this stuff is WAYY beyond you. You need to learn how to get the initial first strong, good responses, before you can even imagine just what you can learn from this product.
However, if you are a more advanced student; if you have been to at least one live seminar or have bought at least one video course, then you absolutely qualify for this product and in fact you must buy it and…
Enjoy The Seduction/Arousal Super-Power And Precision It Will Put In Your Horny Little Hands….Forever!
So if you meet these requirements, and are growing even more excited at what you’ll learn to do from watching this DVD, what the hell are you waiting for? Priced to move at just $49.95, you must click on this link and order on line…TODAY!
You just won’t believe how much incredibly great stuff I’ve packed into just under 2 hours of DVD. It truly is amazing and is some of the best work I HAVE EVER DONE and I know you will love it!
Piece and Peace,
RJ
adavnced comfort game.
Cool....
he told me to read love systems routines manual, and stuff by gunwitch. at the same time, i'm trying to not get too bogged down reading all this shit. then i'm just in my head all the time. magic bullets is good stuff though, their phone section helped me out.
D-boy told me this :
check out franco's stuff
Aaron Sleazy
Brad P
D-boy said :
Quote:
attraction comfort seduction
This is fine, I do it as well.
I want to propose a few concepts to you that are crucial.. tell me how you apply them, and if you do apply them or what you think of them:
- she should want it more
- you have a life, aside from the community and the girl you want
- the girl is SECONDARY to your priorities
- you feel the same way during a PU with a hot girl, as you would with making a new guy friend... you just let things roll naturally, and don't try to force anything (aka, investing too much)
- you VIBE. I define vibe like this:
vibe is when both of you are equally invested in one another (aka, you both like eachother), but the woman is slightly investing more into you. It could be as simple as, she is investing on your withdrawals.
- escalate on IOIs from women.
Quote:
but I run deep comfort and go sexual
how does a typical PU go for you?
what is the location, how long are you in set, what are you saying, what are they doing that signifies they are interested in you, how do you go sexual, etc?
I suggest you go to www.fastseduction.com and read:
zarathustra_fi archive
Sleazy archive
Brad P. archive
also, I suggest you stop thinking of a pick up in a linear way.. i.e.: attract, comfort, seduce.
think of it as one, with different pathways.
Quote:
and they get buyers remorse or feel they connected ad just a friend.
elaborate on the buyers remorse.
if you are getting the friend thing, you are probably being to nice and are not being a THREAT.
as Franco says, leaders:
imprudent (they do not give a fuck)
can make small rapport with people
do you feel do you that?
imprudence can be many things.. negs, C&F, slapping a girls ass, etc, wearing black nails, etc.
Quote:
before that i was doing just attraction and qualifiacation and chit caht and try to close.
this is what you should do:
structure an opportunity for a woman where you put your cards out on the table allowing her to accept, or decline.
if she declines, move on. do not try to figure out how to make it work.
this will also save you a lot of time.
How do you do this?
I suggest you drop a lot of planning, or gaming and just understand the fundamentals (which I suspect you already do) and apply them.
so, go out, have fun, treat all girls like little children, have minimal expectations, and see where the night goes, etc.
Quote:
I know how to physically escalate i sometimes over do it.
yeah, I've done this to. don't worry about it.
whenever I feel the desire to do too much, I always think:
"WHO WANTS IT MORE?"
if the answer is me, I withdraw to save my cards.
Quote:
"its better to over escalate then not escalate" jeffy rsd
yes, in the proper circumstance.
it is better to stick a hand down a girls pants if she grabs your cock, rather than just hug her or something...
that is the context of his statement.
Quote:
they all lose interest..its like Im finally getting female friends or female aquantences but Im not getting laid or its going nowhere..like an orbiter.
you probably are investing too much.
tell me more about a typical PU for you.
-D-Boy__________________
--------------------------------------------------
Other guys are saying gunwitch as per asian playboy
Sleazy and 60 work plus Franco all are congruent.
I will check out their style, sleazy and 60 and gunwitch.
I will down load RJ sexual arrousal cause he uses SRT
briefly and anchours.....
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If you are just starting out with Speed Seduction®; if you are still learning from the required Basic or Delux Home Study Course, this stuff is WAYY beyond you. You need to learn how to get the initial first strong, good responses, before you can even imagine just what you can learn from this product.
However, if you are a more advanced student; if you have been to at least one live seminar or have bought at least one video course, then you absolutely qualify for this product and in fact you must buy it and…
Enjoy The Seduction/Arousal Super-Power And Precision It Will Put In Your Horny Little Hands….Forever!
So if you meet these requirements, and are growing even more excited at what you’ll learn to do from watching this DVD, what the hell are you waiting for? Priced to move at just $49.95, you must click on this link and order on line…TODAY!
You just won’t believe how much incredibly great stuff I’ve packed into just under 2 hours of DVD. It truly is amazing and is some of the best work I HAVE EVER DONE and I know you will love it!
Piece and Peace,
RJ
adavnced comfort game.
Cool....
arouse women. techniques.
Im looking for anything that can arouse women. techniques.
Asian playboy said gunwitch works
get Gunwitch's first ebook, stuff from 60 Years of Challenge or read Aaron Sleazy
Asian playboy said gunwitch works
get Gunwitch's first ebook, stuff from 60 Years of Challenge or read Aaron Sleazy
the emotional - arrousal - compliance to move forward to sex structure
I know badboy talks about it but its farther than that.
like tyler talked about bt spiking , its to be aware of her emotional level first you start off calibrated there and turn up volume slowly.
emotional level social comfort is at her energy and then raise it up a bit, if its at a club or meeting at a date you start off by spiking BT sexually.
so my sturture of game is to elict her emotionally to get her to bait her to respond as per magicians choice and double binds.
you combine yes ladders and change of beliefs
or sexual framing comfort - deep comfort- sexual comfort with ofcourse kino.
her emotions here will be down...you will make her RELAXED.
avoids button pushing.
taking calculated risks.
once youve reached arousal and good solid rapport with qualification then you direct interest and do push pull. use takeaways and mix compliments and accuse her of making you feel horny...
insert CJ's framing of her fault turning you on'.
push pull in terms of not being sure about her and chasing begins.
here the emotions go up and down you keep it up and down.
as you work logisitcs you talk about logical stuff that isnt relevant to the seduction location, you use art of distraction and you BT Spike to make her agree and use socil pressure and double binds to prior knowing therefore you always disqualify before she thinks or smells SLUT radar.
so you keep her push pull , mixing all these emotions and as reward you smile and glare at her eyes and sexual tease like a stripper would do to make her have you pay money.
remember what a girl does to you you do it to a girl back will always work!
you get her to provoke thinking sexual and arousing her that is bt spiking her and not giving it to her up to a point of disengaing her logic that she wants it.
you change subjects yet you still go for physical arousal and take it away.
so emotions here are my guide, you control them and orchestrate the rhythm of the musci played.
you are the director of the movie to create her wildest night ever.
she will love it.
this mindset is gold. made a 2 audio podcast of thisPS: sawyer used to agree with my disqualifiers and minutes later he suggest to do it his way again by leading wihtout using force , ofcourse I caught him doing that and read it off. great closing strategy. he calibrates wiht another topic to think about different thing while her leads me to where he wants of course Im aware and girls will not be if he creates attraction by BT spiking her emotioanlly will kick in her logical.
like tyler talked about bt spiking , its to be aware of her emotional level first you start off calibrated there and turn up volume slowly.
emotional level social comfort is at her energy and then raise it up a bit, if its at a club or meeting at a date you start off by spiking BT sexually.
so my sturture of game is to elict her emotionally to get her to bait her to respond as per magicians choice and double binds.
you combine yes ladders and change of beliefs
or sexual framing comfort - deep comfort- sexual comfort with ofcourse kino.
her emotions here will be down...you will make her RELAXED.
avoids button pushing.
taking calculated risks.
once youve reached arousal and good solid rapport with qualification then you direct interest and do push pull. use takeaways and mix compliments and accuse her of making you feel horny...
insert CJ's framing of her fault turning you on'.
push pull in terms of not being sure about her and chasing begins.
here the emotions go up and down you keep it up and down.
as you work logisitcs you talk about logical stuff that isnt relevant to the seduction location, you use art of distraction and you BT Spike to make her agree and use socil pressure and double binds to prior knowing therefore you always disqualify before she thinks or smells SLUT radar.
so you keep her push pull , mixing all these emotions and as reward you smile and glare at her eyes and sexual tease like a stripper would do to make her have you pay money.
remember what a girl does to you you do it to a girl back will always work!
you get her to provoke thinking sexual and arousing her that is bt spiking her and not giving it to her up to a point of disengaing her logic that she wants it.
you change subjects yet you still go for physical arousal and take it away.
so emotions here are my guide, you control them and orchestrate the rhythm of the musci played.
you are the director of the movie to create her wildest night ever.
she will love it.
this mindset is gold. made a 2 audio podcast of thisPS: sawyer used to agree with my disqualifiers and minutes later he suggest to do it his way again by leading wihtout using force , ofcourse I caught him doing that and read it off. great closing strategy. he calibrates wiht another topic to think about different thing while her leads me to where he wants of course Im aware and girls will not be if he creates attraction by BT spiking her emotioanlly will kick in her logical.
swingers made me think of threesome game
I m looking into sex game,
I hate ebook or being to logical, yet simple and easy works for me, then leave it up to me to be creative :)
so I saw swinger by nina hartley.
her female psycology comes from experience her vids are better than any stupid e book.
I actually used her howe to make love to a woman first 10 minutes as a sexual frames alal topo redstack.
seriosuly she knows her stuff.
but her she has great examples how to fell comfortabl and how to escalate her comfort threshold to new things in sex.
for me its awesome cause its like whole new area and being a PUA is more like I can dominate this area too.
guys are stale in terms of just squirting, the excitement comes from the emotions of sex and unexpecteness and making it a movie for her as she were reading a erotic novel.
thats the type of experience you shoul;d be giving to her.
What guy is going to give her that????
very few.
9 1/2 weeks pushes it too much but its a great example, he should have built comfort , remeber in relationships the cycle is comfort and sexualness.
this is to be kept in constant spiking of the whole process.
DONT BE BUTTON PUSHING
but know what to do when time comes and make things happen....
you lead
you take initiative (thanks alley cat)
so as with greeeneys I plan on taking my sexual comfort thresshold to the next level with her....
like MRM says in situations where youve never done it act like youve been there and done it, adapt to the scenario. to avoid feeling insecure and in your head.
act as you go yet TAKE CALCULATED RISKS
thershold comfort to move further, reach levels , higher levels = excitement attraction.
even addiction.
use that analogy and read in10nse article as franco also comments.
swinggcatt might have some stuff but his push pull works well and for closing.
its basically arousing her and you pulliong back arousaing her and you pulling backl to make her confuse and hornty and wanting you to want it bad.
you escalate from there to avoid keeping it stale or you overgaming or buyers remorse.
I see that is difference of rapid closes, seeing when girls are that ready to fuck you lead.
Swingers vid taught me how far Im from being in game.
knowing this dynamic helps me analyze a structure of basis of how emoitons and sex can crete arrousal to a point of intensity.....even addiction of pleasure.
Im going to ask franco on that WWHD?
I hate ebook or being to logical, yet simple and easy works for me, then leave it up to me to be creative :)
so I saw swinger by nina hartley.
her female psycology comes from experience her vids are better than any stupid e book.
I actually used her howe to make love to a woman first 10 minutes as a sexual frames alal topo redstack.
seriosuly she knows her stuff.
but her she has great examples how to fell comfortabl and how to escalate her comfort threshold to new things in sex.
for me its awesome cause its like whole new area and being a PUA is more like I can dominate this area too.
guys are stale in terms of just squirting, the excitement comes from the emotions of sex and unexpecteness and making it a movie for her as she were reading a erotic novel.
thats the type of experience you shoul;d be giving to her.
What guy is going to give her that????
very few.
9 1/2 weeks pushes it too much but its a great example, he should have built comfort , remeber in relationships the cycle is comfort and sexualness.
this is to be kept in constant spiking of the whole process.
DONT BE BUTTON PUSHING
but know what to do when time comes and make things happen....
you lead
you take initiative (thanks alley cat)
so as with greeeneys I plan on taking my sexual comfort thresshold to the next level with her....
like MRM says in situations where youve never done it act like youve been there and done it, adapt to the scenario. to avoid feeling insecure and in your head.
act as you go yet TAKE CALCULATED RISKS
thershold comfort to move further, reach levels , higher levels = excitement attraction.
even addiction.
use that analogy and read in10nse article as franco also comments.
swinggcatt might have some stuff but his push pull works well and for closing.
its basically arousing her and you pulliong back arousaing her and you pulling backl to make her confuse and hornty and wanting you to want it bad.
you escalate from there to avoid keeping it stale or you overgaming or buyers remorse.
I see that is difference of rapid closes, seeing when girls are that ready to fuck you lead.
Swingers vid taught me how far Im from being in game.
knowing this dynamic helps me analyze a structure of basis of how emoitons and sex can crete arrousal to a point of intensity.....even addiction of pleasure.
Im going to ask franco on that WWHD?
Sex an addiction of emotions
I saw asian plyaboys free direct game seminar at venusian arts with mystery and matador on youtube.
Id say I love asian playboy alot cause of his influence is clear on saffron being confident and funny.
his formula has ABCDEF
B is for spiking BT before going to comfort.
he has this down and my thoughts are to reinitate any convo with any girl even in a date it should start off spiking BT in a sexual way.
this brings me to SEX.
PU is good but its part of the main course meal.
Main course is SEX.
BT is to keep her engaged and enjoying her emotions and you cant do it until it comes obvious what you are trying to do , you do it to keep convo interesting from being boring.
Tim ahs a great routine I used before.
So Tyler is a genius for BT.
BT has disadvantage that its transfereable.
thats why JT tries to BLP the girl he tries to meet. to anchour that to him.
in reality game is based on having contorl on her emotions getting her to react to you emotionally..
therefore you get to not to button push but control the rhythm of the pickup and getting to where you want to take it.
for me deep comfort has an advantage to keeping her into you , obsess over you after that you push away she pulls in.
BAD boys spike BT uncoinciously, make her attracted by emotions not logic.
In10nse has an article and Vin has an audio and its based off the gambling theory of getting her addicted to you..you let her win and she isnt sure she is.
girls love to chase .
Now topic isnt chase or game.
its sex.
Spoe to jk ellis awhile back and I used the dorr pattern before which is awesome but I advise you use it carefully.
Im actually going to rent 91/2 weeks with mickey rourke.
that movie shows a guy who takes things forward.
that was my thoughts with greeneys.
she is polygamous and open to free sex, yet is clingly to me cause I dont get reactive to her, she looks for validation you give her a little but not everything.
I want to try that in sex.
I love fucking and to me sex is in my game a main topic of convo
sex relationships routine by badboy.
make that CONGRUENT that you are sexual excitign man.
ofcourse after comfort.
and describe as trance words sex.... in your convo.
in a way the emotions have to go up and down a like a rollercoaster, you cant be all the time gigling village idiot.
social, tease, question her, share connect, tease, direct interst,sexual provoke her kiss ,her question her, play hard to get at same time move locations to have sex. keep describing hot sex wihtou saying its sex and use art of distraction logical to get her to place of sex.
have sex.
then create emotions after and during sex, talk to her dirty and then be cool and sweet... yet emotionally not needy just understanding, be open and receptive to what she has to say, be careful to avoid buyers remorse. calibrate what her comfort level in sex is.
call her next day or text. then dont call her afterwards.
make her think about you make her call you and want you bad, make her wait.show up late use her anger then change emotions and kiss her, great sex.
see theres a pattern of emotions here.
SEX.
Im looking into BDSM stuff and I love nina hartly stuff. I leanr and skim fast by it.
you hgave that confidence to do it , then you will want to pickup.
ultimate goal isnt pickup , its having sex with the girl.
making her wildest drems and creating a blissful emotions on her.
Id say I love asian playboy alot cause of his influence is clear on saffron being confident and funny.
his formula has ABCDEF
B is for spiking BT before going to comfort.
he has this down and my thoughts are to reinitate any convo with any girl even in a date it should start off spiking BT in a sexual way.
this brings me to SEX.
PU is good but its part of the main course meal.
Main course is SEX.
BT is to keep her engaged and enjoying her emotions and you cant do it until it comes obvious what you are trying to do , you do it to keep convo interesting from being boring.
Tim ahs a great routine I used before.
So Tyler is a genius for BT.
BT has disadvantage that its transfereable.
thats why JT tries to BLP the girl he tries to meet. to anchour that to him.
in reality game is based on having contorl on her emotions getting her to react to you emotionally..
therefore you get to not to button push but control the rhythm of the pickup and getting to where you want to take it.
for me deep comfort has an advantage to keeping her into you , obsess over you after that you push away she pulls in.
BAD boys spike BT uncoinciously, make her attracted by emotions not logic.
In10nse has an article and Vin has an audio and its based off the gambling theory of getting her addicted to you..you let her win and she isnt sure she is.
girls love to chase .
Now topic isnt chase or game.
its sex.
Spoe to jk ellis awhile back and I used the dorr pattern before which is awesome but I advise you use it carefully.
Im actually going to rent 91/2 weeks with mickey rourke.
that movie shows a guy who takes things forward.
that was my thoughts with greeneys.
she is polygamous and open to free sex, yet is clingly to me cause I dont get reactive to her, she looks for validation you give her a little but not everything.
I want to try that in sex.
I love fucking and to me sex is in my game a main topic of convo
sex relationships routine by badboy.
make that CONGRUENT that you are sexual excitign man.
ofcourse after comfort.
and describe as trance words sex.... in your convo.
in a way the emotions have to go up and down a like a rollercoaster, you cant be all the time gigling village idiot.
social, tease, question her, share connect, tease, direct interst,sexual provoke her kiss ,her question her, play hard to get at same time move locations to have sex. keep describing hot sex wihtou saying its sex and use art of distraction logical to get her to place of sex.
have sex.
then create emotions after and during sex, talk to her dirty and then be cool and sweet... yet emotionally not needy just understanding, be open and receptive to what she has to say, be careful to avoid buyers remorse. calibrate what her comfort level in sex is.
call her next day or text. then dont call her afterwards.
make her think about you make her call you and want you bad, make her wait.show up late use her anger then change emotions and kiss her, great sex.
see theres a pattern of emotions here.
SEX.
Im looking into BDSM stuff and I love nina hartly stuff. I leanr and skim fast by it.
you hgave that confidence to do it , then you will want to pickup.
ultimate goal isnt pickup , its having sex with the girl.
making her wildest drems and creating a blissful emotions on her.
Monday, April 26, 2010
Secret Society- TD
by Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden talks about the secret world of the player.
Many guys will dislike this, because it implies that women are sluts and untrustworthy. Well, I can only speak from my experience and report back what I've seen. I'm also posting in a semi-satirical tone - I haven't gone off the deepend..... yet... :)
A secret society exists. Around 52% of people on this earth are a part of it.
Of that 52%, 50% are women, 2% are men.
Of that 2%, 1% of those men are gay, the other 1% are players.
What I'm talking about is the sex secret society - and you are either *IN* or *OUT*.
SOME RULES OF THE SECRET SOCIETY:
1) Don't talk about the secret society.
2) The priority of the secret society is to have perpetually good emotions in all members.
3) Create shrowds around the secret society, like "all men are dogs". Hide the truth that women are far more likely to cheat than men.
4) If you are part of the secret society, you will never be denied anything at any point.
5) If you are not part of the secret society, you will scrap and beg for everything you get.
6) Communication in the secret society is less often verbal, and more often spoken through bodylanguage subcommunications, and verbal subcommunications that would only make sense to members. Any other way, and the 48% of men would pick up on it, and it would no longer be a secret.
7) At the first sign that someone who is not part of the secret society is possibly trying to pretend that he is, barate him with both love-rhetoric, and accusations of chauvanism and nit-witted-ness.
It's OK to cheat on someone who is not a part of the secret society, so long as it is for the purpose of fulfilling the needs of someone who is, or if it to fulfill your own needs and it is with someone who is a part of the secret society. Sleeping with a rare guy from the secret society is no worse than grinding with a girlfriend at a club and making out with her. "It doesn't count".
9) Nobody judges eachother in the secret society. There is no such thing as a slut. A slut is only as slutty as people who are NOT in the secret society are aware of.
10) Secret society members COME FIRST. If someone in the society is not having fun with an interaction, it is cut off. Conversely, if a secret society male is with a non-secret-society male, and a secret society female (all females) decides she wants sex from the secret society male, the friend of the female may have sex with the non-secret-society male, because EVERYONE in the interaction must feel good. However, if the non-secret-society male is blowing himself out so badly that he makes the female member feel very bad emotions, then the secret-society-male must face the consequences of bringing negative emotions into the equation, and lose out on his privilege for sex in that interaction, until he ditches the non-secret-society male. Bear minimum requirements for non-secret-society males being grandfathered in with the male member, is that he not qualify himself or make anyone feel uncomfortable. Failing to meet those requirements, both are blown out.
WHAT IS THE SECRET SOCIETY?
Women are repressed by men, and so must look out for themselves. They will take care of:
1) Their own sexual needs.
2) The sexual needs of anyone in the secret society.
3) The sexual needs of the few males who make the secret society possible ("players").
The secret society is what allows women to appear wholesome and allows them to screen for a long term provider/emotionaltampon.
Women hold off to find the perfect boyfriend, while sleeping with a guy who is likely sleeping with all of their friends, and their friends friends.
They also fuck their gay boyfriends or jerk them off or give them head. They're part of the secret society too, so they can't be left out.
EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS FROM SECRET SOCIETY INSIDERS (based on dozens of interviews I did over the summer, with girls in London England, as well as some from my own experience as a player):
1) If you tell a girl that you're gay, and that you want to "see what it feels like to be with a girl", she'll sleep with you. She won't insist on using a condom either, unless you do. You're part of the secret society, where condoms aren't necessary because they are logical entities and not emotionally relevant.
2) If you subcommunicate that you are a part of the secret society, and tell the friend of your target "I'm really lonely. My girlfriend cheated on me, and I need to re-validate myself tonight", she'll tell her friend to fuck you. Her friend will realize from this that you are a part of the secret society, and she'll fuck you. Moreover, if the friend refuses, the ugly girl will offer you a blowjob to help you out.
3) If you manage to verbally subcommunicate that you are a member (its still subcommunication, because the verbal ways you communicate it aren't direct at all), the secret society members will gladly tell you all about their sexual exploits and adventures. As soon as you subcommunicate that you desire romance, she will immediately retract all of her previous statements (and she'll look completely congruent doing so), and downplay them that it was something she did just one time and that she's looking for a relationship.
PUA: "I love to go out and hook up. I hate it when girls try to run my life"..
HB: "Me too.. I hooked up with guys all last year.. My boyfriend tried to control me, but I do what I want.. My girlfriends all do it too."
PUA: "Really? Cause to be honest, I've always felt like I'm a romantic guy.. And girls always cheat on me.. I want to find a girl who won't cheat."
HB: "I would never cheat. Guys are dogs. I'm always loyal."
PUA: "But didn't you say..."
HB: "No, I said nothing."
PUA: "No, you said that you don't let your boyfriend control you and you do what you want."
HB: "No, I didn't mean that. I'm not a slut. I have no idea what you're talking about, I didn't say that."
4) If you are a member, and say that you are really lonely and you need someone to snuggle and makeout with, all members of the secret society will agree to do so with you. If you are a girl, you have privilege to snuggle and kiss and sleep in the same bed as all other girls. If you are gay, you can do the same. If it escalates to sex, its an accident and does not count. If you're a player, and you make girls around you emotional, and the friends are all in good emotions about it, they sleep with you. No one is a slut in the secret society, because the secret society does not judge.
5) If a group of girls living together find a guy who is in the secret society, they will all fuck him. They'll recommend him as an honourary secret society member, and enjoy him. Meanwhile they may be in relationships with non-secret society members that they've fallen in love with, however this is not an issue because nobody in the secret society judges and sex with people in the secret society does not count. If you are a secret society member now, but in the past enjoyed a romantic relationship, what you may not realize is the part that was left out of the romance novel story (due to rules no1&2 of the secret society code), which was that after you dropped her off your romantic star watching, a secret society member came by and fucked the shit out of her without a condom and gave her the money shot all over her face.
6) If a secret society male has a non member male friend, the friend of the girl who wants sex from the male member will have sex with the non-member even if she doesn't like him. However, rules state that if if the non-member is "creepy/scary" (kinos too much, leans in too much, asks dumb questions, tries too hard to impress, overqualifies), then the male member will be expected to return either alone or with another male member. Also, the male members must remember that positive emotions are always priority, and if he is alone he must still maintain the positive emotions of the female member who will not be getting sex, secret society rules not to be breached. Number 1 rule of the secret society, outside of not talking about it, is that EVERYONE maintains GOOD emotions.
THE UNDERLYING MISUNDERSTOOD TRUTH OF THE SECRET SOCIETY:
The 49% of men who live outside of the secret society don't understand the mental model of attraction of people who are in the secret society.
Men view attraction in their MALE MENTAL MODELS. They believe that attraction is "sexual aggression". They understand attraction as having a physical urge to have sex, and then mentally deciding that you will go after it.
They try to seduce women by touching and grabbing them, and getting them very horny. They try to seduce them in the SAME WAY that a woman would do well seducing THEM. They try to seduce them as if they were seducing a GUY. This sometimes works, and the propaganda is spread - "this is how to get chicks".
Secret society members will not fill them in, due to breach of the code.
What the secret society members are not telling you, is that they understand that most sex occurs when women are not sexually AGGRESSIVE, but sexually RECEPTIVE.
They understand that for women to be ready for sex, they need not feel horny, they need only feel EMOTIONAL.
They understand that women are not logical, and that they are emotional. They understand that for women sex is not a big deal at all, and that its their LOGIC that puts the breaks on it.
They understand that most women are afraid of sex because they lack TRUST, and because their LOGIC is putting on the breaks.
They disarm logic by making the women EMOTIONAL, so that their LOGIC (which is the BREAKS of emotion) becomes disarmed, and at the same time maintain TRUST, so that the emotions generated won't be interfered with.
Then they simply have sex, because although the women are not WANTING sex, they are too EMOTIONAL to DECLINE sex. Then, once they BEGIN to have a physical interaction, the women become horny and sexually aggressive as a result, and sex begins.
(NOTE: This is why girls must COCKBLOCK for eachother. Because they know that clubs are emotionally charged environments, and that it wouldn't take much for a guy to use her resulting sexual receptiveness to lay her. The guy may not be a guy that the girl would lay normally, were she feeling more logical, so the girls must look out for eachother. Guys don't need to do this because firstly, they will not be judged for sleeping around (no logic), secondly, they are sexually aggressive - not receptive - so their decisions will not be regretted later usually, and thirdly, because they do not need trust because they are not usually in any physical danger).
They also understand that value + trust + attraction = sex (rough lazy model).
Value = being someone in the secret society (it can also be SO many other things, but being a member can in some cases be sufficient)
Trust = not telegraphing interest
Attraction = increasing her buying temperature by making her emotional (emotionally aroused, not necessarily physically aroused.. the former will cause her to be too illogical to prevent you from causing the latter, when she's ready)
Don't tell anyone about this. All knowledge will be denied and you will be ridiculed.
Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden talks about the secret world of the player.
Many guys will dislike this, because it implies that women are sluts and untrustworthy. Well, I can only speak from my experience and report back what I've seen. I'm also posting in a semi-satirical tone - I haven't gone off the deepend..... yet... :)
A secret society exists. Around 52% of people on this earth are a part of it.
Of that 52%, 50% are women, 2% are men.
Of that 2%, 1% of those men are gay, the other 1% are players.
What I'm talking about is the sex secret society - and you are either *IN* or *OUT*.
SOME RULES OF THE SECRET SOCIETY:
1) Don't talk about the secret society.
2) The priority of the secret society is to have perpetually good emotions in all members.
3) Create shrowds around the secret society, like "all men are dogs". Hide the truth that women are far more likely to cheat than men.
4) If you are part of the secret society, you will never be denied anything at any point.
5) If you are not part of the secret society, you will scrap and beg for everything you get.
6) Communication in the secret society is less often verbal, and more often spoken through bodylanguage subcommunications, and verbal subcommunications that would only make sense to members. Any other way, and the 48% of men would pick up on it, and it would no longer be a secret.
7) At the first sign that someone who is not part of the secret society is possibly trying to pretend that he is, barate him with both love-rhetoric, and accusations of chauvanism and nit-witted-ness.
It's OK to cheat on someone who is not a part of the secret society, so long as it is for the purpose of fulfilling the needs of someone who is, or if it to fulfill your own needs and it is with someone who is a part of the secret society. Sleeping with a rare guy from the secret society is no worse than grinding with a girlfriend at a club and making out with her. "It doesn't count".
9) Nobody judges eachother in the secret society. There is no such thing as a slut. A slut is only as slutty as people who are NOT in the secret society are aware of.
10) Secret society members COME FIRST. If someone in the society is not having fun with an interaction, it is cut off. Conversely, if a secret society male is with a non-secret-society male, and a secret society female (all females) decides she wants sex from the secret society male, the friend of the female may have sex with the non-secret-society male, because EVERYONE in the interaction must feel good. However, if the non-secret-society male is blowing himself out so badly that he makes the female member feel very bad emotions, then the secret-society-male must face the consequences of bringing negative emotions into the equation, and lose out on his privilege for sex in that interaction, until he ditches the non-secret-society male. Bear minimum requirements for non-secret-society males being grandfathered in with the male member, is that he not qualify himself or make anyone feel uncomfortable. Failing to meet those requirements, both are blown out.
WHAT IS THE SECRET SOCIETY?
Women are repressed by men, and so must look out for themselves. They will take care of:
1) Their own sexual needs.
2) The sexual needs of anyone in the secret society.
3) The sexual needs of the few males who make the secret society possible ("players").
The secret society is what allows women to appear wholesome and allows them to screen for a long term provider/emotionaltampon.
Women hold off to find the perfect boyfriend, while sleeping with a guy who is likely sleeping with all of their friends, and their friends friends.
They also fuck their gay boyfriends or jerk them off or give them head. They're part of the secret society too, so they can't be left out.
EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS FROM SECRET SOCIETY INSIDERS (based on dozens of interviews I did over the summer, with girls in London England, as well as some from my own experience as a player):
1) If you tell a girl that you're gay, and that you want to "see what it feels like to be with a girl", she'll sleep with you. She won't insist on using a condom either, unless you do. You're part of the secret society, where condoms aren't necessary because they are logical entities and not emotionally relevant.
2) If you subcommunicate that you are a part of the secret society, and tell the friend of your target "I'm really lonely. My girlfriend cheated on me, and I need to re-validate myself tonight", she'll tell her friend to fuck you. Her friend will realize from this that you are a part of the secret society, and she'll fuck you. Moreover, if the friend refuses, the ugly girl will offer you a blowjob to help you out.
3) If you manage to verbally subcommunicate that you are a member (its still subcommunication, because the verbal ways you communicate it aren't direct at all), the secret society members will gladly tell you all about their sexual exploits and adventures. As soon as you subcommunicate that you desire romance, she will immediately retract all of her previous statements (and she'll look completely congruent doing so), and downplay them that it was something she did just one time and that she's looking for a relationship.
PUA: "I love to go out and hook up. I hate it when girls try to run my life"..
HB: "Me too.. I hooked up with guys all last year.. My boyfriend tried to control me, but I do what I want.. My girlfriends all do it too."
PUA: "Really? Cause to be honest, I've always felt like I'm a romantic guy.. And girls always cheat on me.. I want to find a girl who won't cheat."
HB: "I would never cheat. Guys are dogs. I'm always loyal."
PUA: "But didn't you say..."
HB: "No, I said nothing."
PUA: "No, you said that you don't let your boyfriend control you and you do what you want."
HB: "No, I didn't mean that. I'm not a slut. I have no idea what you're talking about, I didn't say that."
4) If you are a member, and say that you are really lonely and you need someone to snuggle and makeout with, all members of the secret society will agree to do so with you. If you are a girl, you have privilege to snuggle and kiss and sleep in the same bed as all other girls. If you are gay, you can do the same. If it escalates to sex, its an accident and does not count. If you're a player, and you make girls around you emotional, and the friends are all in good emotions about it, they sleep with you. No one is a slut in the secret society, because the secret society does not judge.
5) If a group of girls living together find a guy who is in the secret society, they will all fuck him. They'll recommend him as an honourary secret society member, and enjoy him. Meanwhile they may be in relationships with non-secret society members that they've fallen in love with, however this is not an issue because nobody in the secret society judges and sex with people in the secret society does not count. If you are a secret society member now, but in the past enjoyed a romantic relationship, what you may not realize is the part that was left out of the romance novel story (due to rules no1&2 of the secret society code), which was that after you dropped her off your romantic star watching, a secret society member came by and fucked the shit out of her without a condom and gave her the money shot all over her face.
6) If a secret society male has a non member male friend, the friend of the girl who wants sex from the male member will have sex with the non-member even if she doesn't like him. However, rules state that if if the non-member is "creepy/scary" (kinos too much, leans in too much, asks dumb questions, tries too hard to impress, overqualifies), then the male member will be expected to return either alone or with another male member. Also, the male members must remember that positive emotions are always priority, and if he is alone he must still maintain the positive emotions of the female member who will not be getting sex, secret society rules not to be breached. Number 1 rule of the secret society, outside of not talking about it, is that EVERYONE maintains GOOD emotions.
THE UNDERLYING MISUNDERSTOOD TRUTH OF THE SECRET SOCIETY:
The 49% of men who live outside of the secret society don't understand the mental model of attraction of people who are in the secret society.
Men view attraction in their MALE MENTAL MODELS. They believe that attraction is "sexual aggression". They understand attraction as having a physical urge to have sex, and then mentally deciding that you will go after it.
They try to seduce women by touching and grabbing them, and getting them very horny. They try to seduce them in the SAME WAY that a woman would do well seducing THEM. They try to seduce them as if they were seducing a GUY. This sometimes works, and the propaganda is spread - "this is how to get chicks".
Secret society members will not fill them in, due to breach of the code.
What the secret society members are not telling you, is that they understand that most sex occurs when women are not sexually AGGRESSIVE, but sexually RECEPTIVE.
They understand that for women to be ready for sex, they need not feel horny, they need only feel EMOTIONAL.
They understand that women are not logical, and that they are emotional. They understand that for women sex is not a big deal at all, and that its their LOGIC that puts the breaks on it.
They understand that most women are afraid of sex because they lack TRUST, and because their LOGIC is putting on the breaks.
They disarm logic by making the women EMOTIONAL, so that their LOGIC (which is the BREAKS of emotion) becomes disarmed, and at the same time maintain TRUST, so that the emotions generated won't be interfered with.
Then they simply have sex, because although the women are not WANTING sex, they are too EMOTIONAL to DECLINE sex. Then, once they BEGIN to have a physical interaction, the women become horny and sexually aggressive as a result, and sex begins.
(NOTE: This is why girls must COCKBLOCK for eachother. Because they know that clubs are emotionally charged environments, and that it wouldn't take much for a guy to use her resulting sexual receptiveness to lay her. The guy may not be a guy that the girl would lay normally, were she feeling more logical, so the girls must look out for eachother. Guys don't need to do this because firstly, they will not be judged for sleeping around (no logic), secondly, they are sexually aggressive - not receptive - so their decisions will not be regretted later usually, and thirdly, because they do not need trust because they are not usually in any physical danger).
They also understand that value + trust + attraction = sex (rough lazy model).
Value = being someone in the secret society (it can also be SO many other things, but being a member can in some cases be sufficient)
Trust = not telegraphing interest
Attraction = increasing her buying temperature by making her emotional (emotionally aroused, not necessarily physically aroused.. the former will cause her to be too illogical to prevent you from causing the latter, when she's ready)
Don't tell anyone about this. All knowledge will be denied and you will be ridiculed.
Tyler Durden
BT spiking review by TD , Sinn
Buying Temperature stands for the degree to which a woman is ready to make intimate physical contact with a man. Unlike attraction, a high buying temperature generally appears and fades quickly. To maintain a woman's level of physical interest over a longer period of time, a pickup artist attempts to pump her buying temperature with fast-paced routines.
Here are some Buying Temperature routines.
1. Lockup - Buying Temperature - Escalation By Tyler Durden
....
At this point in my game, my focus is on pushing girls into BUYING TEMPERATURE, recognizing it, and ESCALATING.
In field, I have the terms:
-lockup
-unlocked
-buying temperature levels
-escalation
...
2. 10 way to Pump up Buying Temperature Tactics by AsainPlayboy
OK, as us Pick Up Artists (PUAs) should know, Buying Temperature is the woman's emotional receptivity and her level of general attraction to the PUA at a given time.
(Note, that there is slight, but subtle difference between general attraction and sexual attraction. You can have one without the other, though then you run the risk of turning from the really cool, fun guy into the really cool, fun friend.)
...
3. Stealing Horny Chicks by Tyler Durden
The girl hits full buying temperature. Maybe you did it. Maybe another natural player did it. Maybe her boyfriend pissed her off and de-validated her. Maybe she's on vacation, and she decides she wants it. Whatever the way, she's decided she wants sex TONIGHT, and somebody is going to get it
...
definition of BT
A sudden increase in the target’s buying temperature, usually initiated through a routine involving kino escalation.
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There are certain routines and gambits that quickly increase a target’s BT. It can involve cavemanning and strong kino escalation. A PUA can also go in a group with high energy and high five all of the girls, and give them a hug afterward. Pumping buying temperature can be dangerous as BT can be transferred to another AMOG.
One effective strategy is to allow a wing to bump up BT and then come back into the set with stronger energy levels. It is also possible for a PUA to AMOG a set and take advantage of the BT already built up from the previous guy. AMOGing a set triggers a biological reaction for the woman’s BT to automatically increase in favor of winner in the AMOG battle.
Usage:
I was able to generate some BT spikes through my dance floor game.
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Related Terms: BT, DHV, DHV spike, IOI, Kino escalation, AMOG
Related Links:
■10 way to Pump up Buying Temperature Tactics – by AsianPlayboy
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2003 08 07 07:04:00 AM EDT
Author: TylerDurden
website: www.fastseduction.com
subject: Lockup - Buying Temperature - Escalation ...Chick is unresponsive. Ask questions, she says "I don't know" or "no", or any blowoff answer. She holds tense shoulders, and if you say "high-5" or try to physically displace her...
Hey guys.. I've been busy as hell, and no time to post. I'm having an awesome summer.
It's late, and I'm feeling kind of manic (therefore in the mood to write and write).
I don't have time to post actively anymore, but here's a pile stuff I've been up to lately. I hope you guys enjoy it. It should shine some light on my style. I'm not criticizing other people's styles, who you can learn from also, since they obviously get the results at the end of the day. This is MY understanding of game.
---
At this point in my game, my focus is on pushing girls into BUYING TEMPERATURE, recognizing it, and ESCALATING.
In field, I have the terms:
-lockup
-unlocked
-buying temperature levels
-escalation
LOCKUP:
Chick is unresponsive. Ask questions, she says "I don't know" or "no", or any blowoff answer. She holds tense shoulders, and if you say "high-5" or try to physically displace her in any way whatsoever, she says the words "I'm scared / you're scaring me / etc". This does NOT mean she is physically afraid. This is like a chick saying "not yet" when you go to kiss her too early in the night. She's JUST saying "I'm not at buying temperature yet". A chick who is locked up cannot even move or give a proper answer for a million dollars. She is locked up. Causes of lockup can be that she sees her friend hitting buying temperature for you too quickly, and she doesn't like it, or that you have conveyed too much eagerness too early.
UNLOCKED:
She is now OPEN to being gamed. Girls KNOW what you're doing when you run material. They may not know its pre-canned, but they know what it means when you tease them - its SEXUAL COMMUNICATION and they know what's up. If a chick is locked up, she isn't even OPEN to this sort of communication. Once unlocked, you can now begin gaming.
Chicks become UNLOCKED when you don't telegraph interest (check the 25 points checklist), and therefore trust your intentions. Also, when you CONVEY PERSONALITY, and they therefore can FILL IN the canvas of your life, they increase trust.
SIGNS of chick being unlocked - KINO TESTS. Hold out your palms upwards. If she puts her hands there, squeeze them. If she squeezes back, she's unlocked for sure. Likewise, tap her, if she taps back playfully, she's unlocked and sexually engaged probably.
BUYING TEMPERATURE LEVELS:
-enough for her to sit there while you game her
-enough to show an IOI like a giggle
-enough to show an IOI and kino you
-enough to show alot of IOIs and ask you questions
-enough for you to venue change her
-enough for you to kino HER, and give her IOIs, and she still likes it (usually after qualification phase, because she now feels she EARNED your attention, rather than you just want to fuck her like every other guy on the planet)
-enough for you to get physical with her
-enough for you to fuck her
As EACH Buying Temperature increase, the chick will usually SHIT TEST you, as a way of TRYING to throw herself OUT OF STATE. She shit tests by doing things that if you react too seriously, she'll get upset and therefore be thrown out of state. By passing shit tests, Buying Temperature is AMPLIFIED. This is like when Eddy (whitedragonPUA) posted about his HBRugby Lay report She kept punching him all night. After he laid her, he asked her why. She said "I just thought you'd go away"... She knew she was hitting buying temperature, and didn't want to succumb to it so she shit tested by hitting him and hoped that he would back off and she would come down. Think back to when you tried to kiss a girl on a date, and she said "NOT YET". She doesn't mean NO. She ONLY means "I'm not at buying temperature yet.. Give me more gaming". Likewise, you try to venue change a girl, and she says "No. But I still want to talk to you". You keep gaming her, and a few minutes later you change venues. This was because you tried to ESCALATE PRIOR TO ATTAINING THE RIGHT LEVEL OF BUYING TEMPERATURE.
There are many examples of chicks trying to throw themselves out of state when hitting buying temperature, but then by passing shit tests it is actually amplified: Chick feels herself getting horny. HB: "You're a player". PUA: "Yeah. so what is it that turns you on so much about players anyway" (Response works firstly because you didn't disagree, so she can't get mad for you lying to her and break her own state, and secondly because you say something COCKY, which hits her emotionally, and therefore raises buying temperature)
EG: Chick says "we shouldn't be doing this"... PUA responds "yeah, we shouldn't be doing this" but KEEPS going.
In both cases, the chick feels her buying temperature increasing unusually rapidly (because of the PUA skillset), and tries to stop what's happening.
When Buying Temperature is hit too quickly, it is called FRYING OUT HER CIRCUITS. This is like when chicks giggle uncontrollably and run away from you even though they like you, or when a chick is at a rock concert and starts screaming and crying when the rockstar comes out. She has hit buying temperature so fast, her circuits fry out and she freaks.
"Routine Outcome Dependence" is a phenomena where you're too HOOKED on seeing chicks increasing buying temperature. EG: "Calling a chick a powerpuff girl will make her giggle"... So when a chick isn't giggling, you try to FORCE it by calling her a Powerpuff girl. EXCEPT, she KNOWS that not normal to say that to a chick whose all serious, so knows something is up (this is actually the 26th 'trying too hard to qualify' thing I guess - routine outcome dependence). The SAME goes for when she's all serious, and you try TOO HARD to seem happy and fun. She KNOWS that you're doing it to get with her, and it doesn't make sense. That does NOT mean state match. It just means MODERATE and don't appear PHONEY. Most Buying Temperature tools are to be used to AMP a state that you see building. She starts giggling a BIT, and you call her a powerpuff girl, and now she giggles a LOT. If she's not giggling AT ALL, then maybe it was the wrong time. She DETECTS that you were consciously TRYING to increase her buying temperature, and blows you off. Field experience is KING, nobody is above it. Field experience helps us to develop an INTUITION of WHERE and WHEN to use the particular material.
TO INCREASE BUYING TEMPERATURE:
(First, remember that there are PRECONDITIONS to a girl even being OPEN to you start to affect her this way. For a set of HB10s, they often may not even ALLOW themselves to be affected by your game, unless you have social proof or status somehow.. Likewise, even for a lesser HB7, if you are smelly and fat and gross, she won't be open to it, even if what you're doing is proper tight game)
--Pump them through emotions rapidly.. (I personally use a detailed system of building routines that increase buying temperature.. basically, routines hit emotions through languaging or demonstration.. not hard.. this way I can build routines on the fly and not rely on canned material - infinite routines via proper understanding or structure and basic creativity) ...
THINK MAKEUP SEX: How good is makeup sex compared to normal sex? WHY? Because you've been pumped through so many emotions. This is what NORMAL sex is like for chicks - hence they like badboys, they like skydiving and sex in exciting places, they like makeup sex, etc etc..
Think Swingdancing routine, think Rollerblading routine, think puppydog routines, think jerk routines, think magic, think funny kino shit like hitting them and spinning them, think cocky stuff. It runs them through various emotions FAST. Story telling must be run in a way that is melodic, and talks fast enough to keep them captivated, but also runs them through emotions at the right progression without talking fast like you're trying too hard.
--Talking from the diaphragm in a fun, non-threatening way. NOT GOING SEXUAL right away in front of her friends (this is not for picking up lone girls, I'm talking public gatherings where I do my pickup.. this is also seduction in the WRONG VENUE, save it for ISOLATION.. don't be tacky and try to seduce her FULLY in PUBLIC). Remember, talking from the CHEST and not the THROAT is key here. You must OVERPOWER her reality with your tonality. This way of talking CUTS THROUGH the noise of the venue, without appearing like you're yelling. Look at how your dad talked to you when he was angry. That is BAD and causes lockup and no buying temperature increase. Look at guys who have FLUCTUATING and FUN tonality. But who are also ALPHA, by virtue of their PROJECTION (diaphragm). Just TALKING without asking them boring questions will unlock and increase buying temperature.
-C&F WORKS because you hit a sharp emotion "Oh that cocky guy, how could he say that!", but because its FUNNY at the same time as cocky, she doesn't get upset. KEY: Making them LAUGH disarms you increasing buying temperature, because the laughter disarms any discomfort.
-PUSH/PULL WORKS because as buying temperature increases, chicks have NATURAL tendency to throw themselves out of state. By gaming them, but pushing them AWAY, they have PERMISSION to ALLOW themselves to go deeper and deeper into state, because they don't worry that you'll exploit that and fuck them "after all, he did say hands off the merchandise.. I can feel this way, and he still won't fuck me".. This is why chicks LOVE gay guys. Because they feel they won't fuck them even if they hit buying temperature. So they can walk around all day at high buying temperature, and not worry that there will be consequences.
FALSE DISQUALIFIERS AND FALSE TIME CONSTRAINTS WORK because the chick says "oh well he can't fuck me.. I can feel free to feel this".. Or "well he's about to leave, so I can feel free to feel this way"
-25 POINTS OF NOT TELEGRAPHING INTEREST WORK because chicks don't worry that you'll fuck them while their buying temperature increases, since you're practically the first guy not to kino them and lean into them and show interest in them, even when they're hot and talking to you. Hence, they react "are you gay", because they can't GRASP that you're not returning their IOIs. They don't say "are you gay" to a 64 year old gay man. They say it to an attractive guy who is turning them on, but not telegraphing interest like EVERY other guy would when she's touching them and all that ("hands off the merchandise"), so they think "WTF, this guy's gay", and ask it all obnoxiously (obnoxious, because its none of their business, and they'd never ask that of a gay guy they're not attracted to).
SUBTLETY: Not telegraphing interest unlocks and ALLOWS buying temperature to increase (because if you convey interest, she won't let herself since she knows you'll fuck her), but it doesn't necessarily increase buying temperature in and of itself. It simply grants PERMISSION to the chick to allow herself to indulge in going into state. As soon as you convey interest (eg: breach one of the 25 points), she may think "shit I can't feel like this", and cuts if off in a fit of anti-slut defense or whatever. SO: Buying temperature is increased by hitting many emotions rapidly, while being unlocked is more from not telegraphing interest (25 points). They are discreet, but run parallel. ONE EXCEPTION: By not telegraphing interest, that MAY sometimes increase buying temperature in and of itself, because the chick may ASSUME that its IMPLICIT social proof (ie: she's not good enough for you, because you lay hotter chicks).
ESCALATION:
At each WAYPOINT, we must ESCALATE.
Buying temperature increases, they want COMFORT. They have COMFORT, they want SEXUAL ("phase shift", etc).
When they hit buying temperature, they say "what's your name", etc, because they want to KNOW the guy who is getting them all into state.
COMFORT BUILDERS (we no longer use RAPPORT, because rapport is one of MANY comfort builders.. Comfort building is the better term IMO, because we're trying to build COMFORT into her being at high buying temperature, rather than trying to get rapport, which connection, trust, commonality, divulging vulnerability, conveying personality and reverse EV, etc etc ALL serve to build comfort.. So RAPPORT is only ONE PART of comfort building):
-It takes roughly 4-7 hours to lay a chick from start to finish (credit Mystery for figuring this out ¬awesomely important, though I didn't realize the importance at the time). Comfort building means BABYSITTING for those hours, while she slowly heats up to be ready for sex - it takes that many hours for her to be ready, unless she's a party chick.
-talking about stuff that DOES NOT pump them through too many sharp emotions rapidly (ie: DROP C&F, drop the crazy exciting shit), but still keeps them into the convo
-talk should convey who you are, so she can fill in the empty canvas and see the PICTURE of 'who is this guy I'm so attracted to' Attraction is THERE - she's at that buying temperature. Comfort building means building COMFORT into the state she's in, so she doesn't put a stop to it.
-include talk about how its NATURAL to feel this way for the right person.. Examples: Evolution Phase shift routine (she feels its EVOLUTIONARY that she feels like this, and backwards rationalizes), or the "I wasn't born with a book on what to do.. I just do what feels comfortable" (chicks KNOW the feeling that certain guys make them comfortable, and ASSUME that they feel this way for YOU"
-SIMULATING THAT *YOU* ARE HITTING BUYING TEMPERATURE: "What's your sign? OH MY GOD I LOVE LIBRAS.. Oh god, I can't talk to you.. you're trouble" (turn away, just like girls whose circuits fry out.. you're TRICKING them to think you're doing what THEY do, since chicks do this shit all the time because they hit buying temperature for retarded arbitrary shit like astrological signs and colognes and shit like that)
FAKING LOCKUP AS PUNISHMENT in 'Punishment/Reward': If you're in comfort building, FAKE the symptoms of lockup. She'll understand what it means when she's like "TD, are you OK?" and I say "I dunno" just like a chick would when she's locked up. She'll grab you and start talking to try to unlock you. For example: HB "I like oranges" PUA "What? Apples. Apples are gross.." (pretends to lock himself up) HB "no no no, I said oranges! Oranges!" PUA "oh shit.. I love oranges.." (pretends to unlock) Congrats, now she's chasing you.
FEAR OF LOSS TO MAINTAIN STATE WITHOUT INTENSE EMOTIONAL UPS AND DOWNS: Some guys complain that in rapport phase (now called "comfort building phase") the girls come out of state. By using punishment reward bit, she'll be chasing you. But ALSO, building in FEAR OF LOSS is effective. Think back to when a girl who you didn't like liked you. Maybe back in high school or some shit. But then you realized that she never liked you. You LOSE the validation you got. You start to obsess. You start to like her. Likewise, you have a state relationship. But she starts to get into another guy. OH SHIT, you're obsessing over her again. Or you make HER jealous, and now she's back into you (even when it was stale). This is the power of FEAR OF LOSS. Fear of loss REMINDS us of how attracted we are.
In comfort building, encorporate fear of loss and punishment/reward, so that you don't suffer the phenomena of losing the chick at rapport phase (aka comfort building phase) because the interaction has lost its charge.
KEYS:
If you FAIL to ESCALATE, the pickup is often OVER.
Example:
1) If you don't stop busting on her, she looses interest after a while, because you're being too emotionally intense for her. She needs COMFORT built into the high buying temperature you're generating. This is why you get guys who are good at opening at attracting, but have difficulty closing unless its a party-chick.
2) If you don't phase shift out of comfort, she gets bored or something (maybe you're beta or not interested)
3) Final escalation - ARGHHHH!! (I got burnt on this FIVE times, until I RECOGNIZED it) If you keep them SEXUAL but don't escalate to FUCK them, its too intense for too long, and they say "I'm tired" or "I feel sick". This is guaranteed. What happens is they get actually QUEASY from you keeping them sexual without fucking them for TOO LONG. If anyone else has had this happen, report back. Have you guys seen this before? Its JUST LIKE the "what's your name" IOI. It's something that CONSISTENTLY HAPPENS under specific circumstances.
QUALIFYING AS A WAY OF 'TRUMPING' SOIs:
When you qualify the chick to you, you've now conveyed to her that you're interested in her for reasons BEYOND her being a nice peice of ass.
So BEFORE, the reason girls in public gatherings would snuff you off when you showed interest was because she thought "he only wants to fuck me".
By making her chase, and then showing her WHY you've found yourself interested in her, she now thinks "well he showed me a signal of interest, but I EARNED it, so its because I'm a Libra and because he felt comfortable talking to me and because I told him I got an A+ in my psych100 class" (If you're interested to read more on this, you can read "pickup of HB10GF" post of mine in my archive, around late last spring, to review how I qualify chicks to me, to convince them they earned it)
If I take a girl's phone#, I find I MUST qualify her prior to taking it. This is because the MERE ACT of phoning her can be a signal of interest. But if I've run my qualification phase, then its NO PROBLEM that I'm telegraphing some interest by phoning, since its WARRANTED.
She's gone into buying temperature, she's chased you, she's EARNED your attention. So now its *OK* that you're showing interest at this point. She'll be fine with it - of course. If you plan to give an SOI in your game, its at THIS POINT that it is less likely to blow you out.
LOGISTICS:
1) Chicks CONSTANTLY look at eachother while they're being pushed into buying temperature. Watch while you sarge, as they CONSTANTLY keep looking at one another to see what state they're in. If they give the "girl code" look that one is not in state, they ALL leave. Chicks NEED to feel that ALL their friends are feeling it TOO, so they don't get looked down on by their friends. This is why social proof is SO important in public gatherings. If ONE chick is not at the SAME buying temperature, then she SEES that her friend will fuck you if she leaves her alone, and she drags her away. You must NOT put a girl TOO FAR into buying temperature in front of her friends, unless you keep them together.
BTW: One reason chicks like socially proofed guys is that they SEE that many other chicks have gone into buying temperature, so its "OK" to allow themselves to do so. Also, if you've read my routine where I get my wingman in on 2sets where his chick isn't liking him, I say "your friend is ignoring my friend.. I don't want him to be lonely.. I'm gonna go", and then YOUR chick will start saying to her locked up friend "no, he's cool.. I like him he's cool.. blah blah", and all of a sudden the previously locked up friend now OPENS UP to your wingman, and now BOTH chicks will fuck you.
2) 2sets are EASY to fclose when you have a competent wing. Why? Because they BOTH go into buying temperature, and since NEITHER will object, it just happens.
3) The smart PUA does as LITTLE as possible to hit the next buying temperature. This way he doesn't exhaust his material, and he doesn't risk the girl FRYING OUT HER CIRCUITS (rock concert style), or possibly her detecting what you're doing and cutting it off. Also, its better, because if she is ONLY at "venue change" buying temperature, then her friends will SENSE this and be less likely to object to you taking her away from them. AFTER you have her away from her friends, you can now pump her up all the way to full buying temperature, and now you've STRATEGICALLY played your game, so that you don't get cockblocked.
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Pump Buying Temperature
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Guys,
im sure we all read about pumping buying temperature in style's book "the game", but im still a bit fuzzy on it.
Does anyone know any routines that are used for buying temperature, or even any explanation that will help me make my own routines for it.
cheers
Malibu
#2 03-07-2006, 06:33 AM
acqyr - Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibu
Guys,
im sure we all read about pumping buying temperature in style's book "the game", but im still a bit fuzzy on it.
Does anyone know any routines that are used for buying temperature, or even any explanation that will help me make my own routines for it.
cheers
Malibu
TD's buying temp article:
"As EACH Buying Temperature increase, the chick will usually SHIT TEST you, as a way of TRYING to throw herself OUT OF STATE. She shit tests by doing things that if you react too seriously, she'll get upset and therefore be thrown out of state. By passing shit tests, Buying Temperature is AMPLIFIED. This is like when Eddy (whitedragonPUA) posted about his HBRugby Lay report She kept punching him all night. After he laid her, he asked her why. She said "I just thought you'd go away"... She knew she was hitting buying temperature, and didn't want to succumb to it so she shit tested by hitting him and hoped that he would back off and she would come down. Think back to when you tried to kiss a girl on a date, and she said "NOT YET". She doesn't mean NO. She ONLY means "I'm not at buying temperature yet.. Give me more gaming". Likewise, you try to venue change a girl, and she says "No. But I still want to talk to you". You keep gaming her, and a few minutes later you change venues. This was because you tried to ESCALATE PRIOR TO ATTAINING THE RIGHT LEVEL OF BUYING TEMPERATURE.
There are many examples of chicks trying to throw themselves out of state when hitting buying temperature, but then by passing shit tests it is actually amplified: Chick feels herself getting horny. HB: "You're a player". PUA: "Yeah.. so what is it that turns you on so much about players anyway" (Response works firstly because you didn't disagree, so she can't get mad for you lying to her and break her own state, and secondly because you say something COCKY, which hits her emotionally, and therefore raises buying temperature)
EG: Chick says "we shouldn't be doing this"... PUA responds "yeah, we shouldn't be doing this" but KEEPS going.
In both cases, the chick feels her buying temperature increasing unusually rapidly (because of the PUA skillset), and tries to stop what's happening. "
Essentially, it is doing everything right-passing shit tests, running troutines, being alpha-EVERYTHING she is NOT used to from most guys...you can definitely tell when you say or do something that spikes it-she leans in more, she touches you more, etc...then that BT is spiking
__________________
"Love me or hate me — it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran, a champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons."
#3 03-09-2006, 12:50 PM
Onix - Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 367
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i have a question about "Buying Temp"
Why is it a girl wants to throw her self out of state exactly?
I kind of think its becuase its her ASD kicking in and so she will try to slow down the process but when you respond with an e/g given by TD YOU apm up the BT and then SHE has an excuse to stay in that state and can put the reaons for what is happening on to the PUA and so everything is socially acceptable
Am i right or wrong here?
#4 03-19-2006, 05:57 AM
Cedar -
TAF Hall Of Fame
Lounge Member Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Age: 36
Posts: 2,622
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Buying Temperature is a TD concept involving how sexually receptive the woman's emotional state is. The higher the BT, the more likely she'll sleep with you IN THAT MOMENT.
You can pump Buying Temperature with ANY attraction technique. Sleight of Hand and mini cold reads pack more bang for the buck. But everything works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onix
Why is it a girl wants to throw her self out of state exactly?
Her logical mind is attempting to derail her sexual receptiveness as part of LMR. ie, its protecting her sexual organs from being taken advantage of by continually shit testing whomever is responsible for raising her buying temperature.
Hope that made sense. It's not essential to understand the BT model to succeed at MM, btw. This is a Tyler Durden concept. Not a Mystery concept.
__________________
Assuming you're not a kidney harvester, we can chat in the car. - Cedar
#5 03-19-2006, 03:57 PM
Malibu - Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 29
Posts: 2,416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedar
Buying Temperature is a TD concept involving how sexually receptive the woman's emotional state is. The higher the BT, the more likely she'll sleep with you IN THAT MOMENT.
You can pump Buying Temperature with ANY attraction technique. Sleight of Hand and mini cold reads pack more bang for the buck. But everything works.
Her logical mind is attempting to derail her sexual receptiveness as part of LMR. ie, its protecting her sexual organs from being taken advantage of by continually shit testing whomever is responsible for raising her buying temperature.
Hope that made sense. It's not essential to understand the BT model to succeed at MM, btw. This is a Tyler Durden concept. Not a Mystery concept.
This is the answer i was after...thanks once again Cedar.
Malibu
#6 04-05-2006, 07:43 AM
Jawsome - Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 32
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This is the stuff I love right here.
Buying Temperature Spikes (TD v Juggler)
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Everyone always argues over whats better Juggler Method or MM, in act I just saw a post about it. I want to discuss Tyler Durdan's Temperature spike strategy and Juggler's.
Durden says in his Playing Hard to Get post:
Quote:
These buying temperature spikes are the right time to start doing subtle takeaways. That is, not the kind of takeaway where you walk off into another set. Rather, you just break eyecontact with her, and face away a bit. You *exactly* what the girls do to you, when you're gaming them in a club, and they get distracted because a peice of your material is not strong enough. You turn to your friends or the bar or the dancefloor, and you make it look like you're about to leave.
*But*, girls are very much accostomed to getting what they want. So unlike
most guys who will give up, their instant reaction is to go "HEY HEY HEY, keep talking.. What were you saying??? What???"
Juggler claims in summary of Juggler Method that:
Quote:
The method is not to worry so much about getting deep but to get wide rapport (a feeling like you can talk about anything). Again the key is including and amplifying a girl's response, no matter the response.
...
Make an SOI. At all her high points (laughing, etc). This rewards her for trying and sarging you back.
So basically Tyler Durden's approach is too do a IOD on spikes and Juggler's is to SOI in order to expand and increase the connection.
Now ive messed around with both these approaches in the field, but it's hard to say "this way works because it gets better responses." Ive found that jugglers approach sends you into comfort more quickly and is usually elicites a better immidiate response. And while I sometimes I get negative responses from TD's approach, many times the girl does game you and re-engage as TD claims. Maybe I havn't calibrated enough to get positive responses all the time, but at the same time, I agree with TD when he says it sets the right frame by making you the prize (even when the immidiate response is less than great).
Currently I try to start out by mixing them up and then move towards TD approach if the sarge is going well. Then back towards Juggler's as I get into strong comfort and finally seduction (because at first I want to reach the social hook point and later I want her to think she is winning my attention). Also (and this should be intuitive, although I have field tested), Juggler's approach is better for 8s and 7s and Tyler's better for 10's. This would make sense considering that you're already displaying higher value than 8's and 7's so there is no need to make them chase you, or to risk them thinking your "out of their league."
The specific sarge that brought this up for me was an HB9.5 who I gamed (very well) and got into middle comfort but I couldn't close. I wanted to move into a kiss close, but I could tell it wasn't quite there. She was giving out IOI's hardcore but also she kept shit testing me over and over, despite that I kept passing them. (ie she would dance with another dude she knew to make me jealous and I would smile and walk away and she would follow me). I couldn't understand what was going on until I read Durden's post and realized it seemed to her that I was gaming her, she was in the mode where she was being persued and even though she was attracted she couldn't accept that I was doing it too her. What I realized is I almost never used the TD approach, and during this sarge I only used the Juggler approach. It usually works for me, but with certain girls you have to make them chase you. This is especially true when you lack social proof. Doing IOD's like TD social proofs you to an extend. It shows her you don't care AT ALL. Way more than C/F does. You don't need this if you have enough social proof, but if its lacking it is much more important (depending on the girl). In fact I would say that it is all the social proof that you really ever need (except when it is required to open) because by chasing you she has already decided that you are high enough value to fuck.In summation, TD's approach is a risk (which we tend to shy away from in "solid game"), but it also has the advantages of 1. Making her chase you (the best possible frame). 2. Giving you any needed social proof. The Juggler approach 1. Keeps the risk low (she isn't going to lose any connection with you or get pissed at your lack of interest) 2. Allows you to move directly into more material, building more attraction or comfort.
If anyone else has thoughts, I welcome your input. Or respond even if you have a different idea of went wrong in my original sarge. And no I should not have just plowed ahead for the kiss close, I've done this enough to know when something's missing. Plus this girl was part of a closed environment.
#2 05-23-2007, 04:52 PM
ware_ru - Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,237
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I only skimmed the post but I think you're misunderstanding:
Quote:
So basically Tyler Durden's approach is too do a IOD on spikes and Juggler's is to SOI in order to expand and increase the connection.
In TD's post, the timed fractionation on buying temperature spikes are meant for, when YOU do some funny shit, and SHE is laughing, you do a mini takeaway so you dont' seem reaction seeking, and to subtly demonstrate non-neediness and get her to chase.
Juggler says to SOI on HER high points - when SHE does something great, not when YOU are making her laugh. When SHE tells a funny joke, or a good story, or osmething like that, you SOI her. This is just like qualification in the M3 model.
So you are perceiving some sort of difference between the TD and Juggler pieces when in fact they can be used in conjunction.
Warnings: 4 |
#3 05-23-2007, 06:45 PM
Sinn - Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 516
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The answer is... they are both right.
You always want to test for compliance and investment on high points ala everyone's favorite red headed PU guru.
And you also want to reward her when she gives that compliance ala everyone's favorite Michiganite.
So the right way to do it is when you sense that you have reached a high enough level of attraction, interest, or buying temp, you should pause and look away to see if she is going to re-initiate the conversation. Then when she does, you reward her by going into qualification.
Clear...
Sinn- Everyone's favorite funny haired master of all styles of PU.
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stealing horny chicks
by Tyler Durden
FOLLOW THE SHINY THING GIRLS.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW THE SHINY THING.. ITS GOING OVER HERE..
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=6&mn=1072259405121074
Here's how it goes down:
The girl hits full buying temperature. Maybe you did it. Maybe another natural player did it. Maybe her boyfriend pissed her off and de-validated her. Maybe she's on vacation, and she decides she wants it. Whatever the way, she's decided she wants sex TONIGHT, and somebody is going to get it.
You see this in Leicester Square in London England. The girls get hit on all night. The guys hitting on them are getting blown out left and right. But yet, at the same time, their buying temperature is escalating and escalating.
And as we all know, buying temperature is TRANSFERABLE. You can literally walk up to a girl who is being picked up by a player, blow him out, and pull the girl and hook up with her within 45 minutes. I've done it in front of audiences, while they sit there jaw dropped. It appears that I've done something inconceivable, when in fact what I've done it stupidly easy, just as long as you have a bit of balls.
In nighttime social environments, pickup is all about FOLLOW THE SHINY THING GIRLS.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW THE SHINY THING.. ITS GOING OVER HERE.. :)
That's a metaphor I first got from Toecutter I think, and its funny as hell because its true. In clubs, girls are like little kittens in a prairie, jumping from one stimulus to the next. Chase the butterfly little kitten.. chase it.. chase it.. no wait, a leaf.. chase it.. no wait!, a bird... chaaaaase it....
Girls in clubs, its the same shit. Dance.... Dance.... Drink.. Drink.... No wait! Lights! Music!!! Guys hitting on us... We're listening to them... They're fun.... No wait! They're players... Runnn awaaaaaay!!!! Wait, its my BEST FRIEND... I LOVE HER... HUG MY BEST FRIEND!!! GRIND HER!!!!
God, how do I deal with this shit on a nightly basis? It's like they're on crack. Do you guys see this shit? They see their friends and they run up and scream and hug eachother?
At clubs, most girls look like mindless stimulation seeking zombies. When I run workshops, I call this "the girl is about to pop". What that means is that you'll be running the set, but one of them can't quite hear you or isn't fully interested. And you see her eyes wandering, and she's looking around the club. It's like "This isn't stimulating enough.. Zombie needs more stimulation.. Seek stimulation.. Find it.. Maintain buying temperature.. Zombie LIKES buying temperature... dancing.. .dancing is buying temperature.... Zombie likes dancing... Let's go dance.. Zombie needs zombie friends to come with zombie, so zombie is safe..."
GUYS.... - LET'S - GO - DANCE!!!
And POOF, your set is GONE. Your target girl could have LOVED you, but the second her friends say "Let's go dance", it is fucking OVER. I'll see one of the girls looking around, seeking out other stimulation, and I'll blurt out to my wing "dude, that one's about to pop", and then its "Hey! Show's over here!", to the chick (like from my "How to take the fuck over a set" post I wrote a few weeks ago).
Anyway, getting back to the topic of tug of war, this is the shit I see all the time. The girl hits buying temperature, and now its whoever has the biggest shiny thing that will fuck her that night.
I'll have girls telling me they love me and asking where I'm going after the club closes, and then some other dude will move in, and she'll ignore me and act like I don't exist. Literally, she'll just cut me out of her reality. Then I'll go in and blow the guy out, and he'll leave, and then the girl will be my best friend again.
Bros, this is the harsh world of pickup. It's a cold cruel world... :)
This shit reminds me of rams butting heads on the mating ground. It's fucking crazy some of the shit I've seen and done.
In Las Vegas, I took this girl away from a guy who'd been gaming her all night. I was macking out with her and she's all over me. She says she wants to go home with me and that the guy she's with is a chump (even though she is clearly into him, but she just likes me more now, since I opened her even though the guy was right there).
We go to leave the casino, and her friend wants to back in for one last second and say bye to the guys. The guy I took her from grabs her back chats her for a few minutes, and next thing you know he walks her around the casino for the next 45 minutes while I sit there waiting like a puppydog.. FUCK, so CLOSE.. Like I had them at the cab stand, and now I'm back in here by myself??? My girl comes back and says she can't go home with me anymore, while I see the guy smiling that he's got her now.
I go off to the side, over to the friend and say that I'm gay, and that I want my girl (her best friend) to be my new best friend and to take her shopping tommorow morning. "Can I stay over?" She believes it, and cockblocks the guy who was about to pull the girl that we were fighting over, and we all go home together. The girl hates me, but her buying temperature is up and she needs sex. Oh yeah, did I mention that she was engaged? Anyway, she's fucking hot as hell, I'm there, she's there, and boom, its a done deal.
This was hard core tug of war. The same thing I did in Montreal, when I gamed up this set until they're ready to go home with me and my wing (while the students watch this go down), but then I have to leave to continue the workshop because its too early in the night, so I leave. Meanwhile some natural french player guys move in and start making out with these girls within about 3 minutes! Why? Because the girls buying temperature is up, and these guys can sense it and they exploit it.
Now these girls want to leave with these 2 french player dudes. So I go in with Stephane (of Cliff's List fame), and I make best friends with the two girls and tell them that I love their friend because I love them, and that I want to be best friends with them and that I we'll all be happy together, blah blah.. The girls cockblock the player guys and tell their friends all to go back to my house (incidentally its Cliff's house from Cliff's List, who I'm staying with). Our targets keep trying to go back with the French player guys, but I just cockblock the shit out of them by continually whispering into the obstacles ears that I need help from them. In this case there was a fuckup which I talked about in another post. Either way, the French guys were jaw-dropped when we waved, winked, and laughed at them, as we took away their girls.
I've done this SO MANY times. I'll see a girl who's ready to be pulled, and I just go befriend the obstacles. The obstacles know that their friend is going to sleep with SOMEBODY, so they do what it takes to make sure that somebody is me.
This is hardcore tug of war. You can see it outside clubs at closing times. Accounts are being worked out. Guys are chatting the girls they grinded with all night, trying to get them to "go to the afterbar" or "go eat" with them.
That's how the pull always goes down. It's first to go eat or party more or do drugs or drink at a house or hotel, and one thing leads to another. JLaix uses "We're going to Club Jeffy". Same type of shit.
I've also lost alot of tug of war battles in my day. Of course this is because I'll go into the battle even in spite of knowing that my odds are poor. I do it just for the education.
The other night in Kingston I had this girl ready to leave with me. I also had a date that night with a hotter girl, and ditched this girl at around 11pm. Twentysix was visiting me in Kingston, and we drove over to the girls house, but I realized that I'd forgotten the address. FUCK. So I go back to the club. Surprise, surprise....... The girl is grinding and making out with some new guy, about to go home with him. Of course, its because I upped her buying temperature FOR the guy. FACK!!!
So I get the friends of the girl to drag her off of him for me. Now she's all up on me. She's mine. But I leave for the bathroom for a minute, and I come back and watch the dude who was grinding with her pull her home and fuck her (I found out the next day, because I befriended the friends and called them).
Likewise, I was in Whistler Blackcomb, in British Columbia last weekend. For guys who don't know what that is, its one of the top ski resorts in the world. Fucking AMAZING place to go. Totally amazing experience. So we ski all day, and go clubbing at night. Twentysix and I had gamed up this 2set the night previous, and had a day2 planned with them at one of the bars on the resort. We show up 2 hours late, and these 2 player guys have moved in on our girls. I underestimate them, because our girls run up to us. I figure they're some lameasses. They weren't good looking or big or anything. I say to my girls "Let's get out of here", and they're ready to leave. Out of nowhere, the player guy walks in and says "Let's go do kareoke". I laugh at him internally, because I think he's AFC. But then I notice something. It's subtle, but its clearly there. He's not leaning in. He's not looking needy. He's directing her what to do. He's alpha.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK - He's a player and I misread the play.
Despite being about to leave with us, I watch this guy walk in and outalpha me (I sat there indifferent because I couldn't CONCEIVE that this guy could be a player), and take my girls from me. We all go to the next club together, and he has her and I'm looking lame for following along. Twentysix's girl likes him though, and is deciding between this guys' friend and Twentysix. Twentysix's competition isn't too bad, so he blows him out. But the girl tells me "HB decided yesterday after meeting you guys that she was going to get laid tonight. And you guys just came too late."
Twentysix runs the typical routine that we run when this happens, where one girl is ON but the other girl isn't. He tells his girl that if her friend isn't going to make it fun for me that he'll just leave. His girl begs her friend to hook up with me, but the player guy has me by the balls. I actually learned a SHITLOAD from watching this guy work, which I've since encorporated into my game to great effect. So Twentysix games up some other girl who he NEARLY pulls (a super cute blondie, much hotter than his girl), and both girls go home and fuck these two new guys who blew me out.
FUCK FUCK FUCK... I go home alone that night. The same way that many guys have gone home alone because of me. OUCH, I know how it feels now... ahhahaa, its all a game anyway, so I there's winners and losers. I'll be a winner again, and I'm sure I'll lose alot of them too.
For me, when I see its GAME ON with the tug of war, I have key tool's at my disposal:
1) Unlike 99% of natural players, I know that the key to the target is her peergroup. I befriend the obstacles and bring them ALL home together. I literally TELL DIRECTLY to the obstacles to pull her friends off the competing players, because I like and want to date her friend so that way we can all be a happy family.
2) I'm willing to sit in set and just chat the obstacles, while the players up the target's buying temperature for me, and I wait for the perfect time to make my move.
3) Out-alpha tactics, posted in "Some AMOG tactics" post I did a while back.
4) Social proof and jealousy. Unlike most players, I can walk into adjacent sets and blow them up, right in front of the girl I want.
5) Tell the obstacles that I'm gay, and worried about the target, and that I want to be her new gay best friend and take her shopping, and I want to save her from that guy. Then the friends push the girl on me and leave her alone with me, and the target has no idea what I've told the friends. In cases where the target hear's that I told the friends that I was gay, I just say either that I was joking, and then makeout and hookup with the target, or I say they're wrong, or they never said it.. Whatever.
6) I throw up the BIGGER SHINY THING.. I'll do a magic trick (I rarely use them, but I'll use them and make the competing guy player be the guy I do the trick on).. I have this one where I snatch a coin out of the guys' hand, that's not really magic that I learned at an MM Workshop. It's basic, but it works because you OWN the guy in front of the girl. I also just plow them with stories or bring over other girls and introduce them, and then tell the pawn-girls I brought over to chat the guy, and then take my girl back.
Again, notice that I NEVER give up. If I see a girl with her buying temperature up, I LOVE the challenge of competing against other players. You see this in Leceister Square in London at the end of EVERY Friday and Saturday night. The girls are walking around totally in state, and the player guys are coming up to them one by one until one of them pulls them. Crazy shit.
Anyway, this is a fun thing that I like to do, and I know most other PUAsaren't doing this stuff.
I really encourage you guys to have no fear of approaching even 1guy/1girl two sets, and taking the girls. You'd be surprised how often the two barely know eachother. Also, if you EVER and I mean *EVER* see natural players gaming up girls, never be afraid to go in and open ONLY the girls.
How do you know if its natural players? Hahaha, well, I hate to say this, but 9 times out of 10, if the girls look like they're having a good time (ie: they're giggly or touching the guy alot), then its a pickup, NOT a boyfriend with his longterm girlfriend. Why? Because girls aren't having fun if they're with their LTR. They usually only have fun with players. haaa, sad but true.
So if you see girls all giddy, then its probably a pickup, and you can easily swoop in and play a little tug of war with the other PUAs.
It's fun, and I often make friends with the other natural PUAs who I'm competing against. In fact some of my friends I've met in the field are players whose girls I've taken home right from them, earned their respect, and now we hang out.
I have a ton more to say on this topic also, which maybe I'll post someday or in addition to this. Tug of war is something I do all the time, and I encourage you guys to give it a shot because its WAY easier than it looks. It looks tough, but if you just use the principles you learn from ASF, you'll find its in fact very easy. Just ignore the social situation, and PLOW THEM FUCK OUT OF THE GIRLS WITH ROUTINES right in front of the guys. Easy shit, and great for ONS.
Tyler Durden
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playing hard to get
by Tyler Durden
-Active Disinterest & Buying Temperature Spikes -Screening vs Chasing switch -Social hook point and sexual hook point -Female psychology (autopilot responses, socially conditioned buying temperature regulation, value responses, choice making fuck ra
PLAYING HARD TO GET - BEING A CHALLENGE - BEING THE PRIZE
I talked about posting some more advanced material for guys who are interested. Here is a first helping. If you're not interested in dense material, read something else.
This is one of the most important posts I've written in some time, and it will likely go misunderstood given that most guys will not have the field experience to appreciate it. It is the most important thread I've posted in six months.
For guys who can gain attraction very consistently, but still have trouble getting laid: read this post until you have it down.
A few things to keep in mind, I want to throw out here:
-Buying Temperature Spikes
-S/C Switch (Screening vs Chasing switch)
-Social hook point and sexual hook point
-Female psychology (autopilot responses, socially conditioned buying temperature regulation, value responses, choice making fuck rationalizations)
-Bodylanguage subcommunication of hard-to-getness (the idea of not saying you're hard to get, but communicating it with your bodylanguage)
***This post is directed towards girls who you ascertain are attracted to challenging guys. Not all girls are like this, but many hot girls are. Again, many aren't. For guys use or advocate other styles which don't make use of this sort of stuff, the reason that they are getting laid is that they using other means of getting laid. There is more than one style. This post is something that is useful for guys in my context, and if you're using a totally different style than me, then this stuff may be useless to you.
SOME ROUGH THOUGHTS ON FEMALE PSYCHOLOGY:
Many of the hottest girls are extremely responsive to hard to get guys. Anyone in field has experienced the scenario where he plays hard to get and having the girl chase, but as soon as he shows interest he is blown out. This can happen even as late as the bedroom. Like, you'll have a girl chasing you all night, isolate you back home, but because you make the first move, she locks up and the pickup is over.
There are several reasons behind this, and in any given situation the lockup may have been caused by one or all of the reasons.
Firstly, you have autopilot responses. Think to the last time that you walked down the street, and a vagrant asked you for change. Perhaps you said "no", and kept walking. You don't consider it a lie. It's just an autopilot response to a social situation. Girls are the same with the LJGD ("let's just go dance") or "let's go to the bathroom", when their buying temperature goes down and their logical social conditioning kicks in and says "This guy is trying to sleep with us. He may be attractive, but who cares, I'm not meeting a guy at a club. I'm leaving this situation to go dance, because that's why I came to the club in the first place."
Notice also, how in all of the times that you've told a vagrant "no" when you were asked for spare change, there were those few times when someone asked you for help, and you said "no" out of habit, when in fact as you walked off you might have thought to yourself "Shit, maybe that guys' car really did break down. He didn't look like a vagrant. I wonder if I was a dick to him?"
The same goes for girls. They'll screen guys out as an auto-pilot response, and later wonder if they made a mistake (but they don't care, because another guy will come along in two seconds anyway). Attraction and how alpha or how sexual you are is not a factor here. Even very attractive guys get screened out for no logical reason. This is purely an autopilot response that you have to recognize and dodge. That is why we use opening tactics - they open consistently.
Likewise, girls will leave a set as their buying temperature increases too fast, as an autopilot response. They think "I don't know this guy. This guy knows what he's doing, and probably does it to all the girls. I'm getting out of here." This is why we use fractionation tactics, so as to avoid her disengaging you. Note also, that typical C&F push/pull is NOT a fractionation tactic. C&F and the like is not indirect, even if you are flirting around that you are hard to get. Girls know that if you're taking the time to engage them, even in a C&F hard to get flirtish type way, that it is not the case that you are *legitimately* hard to get. This is in the same way that when a girl comes up to me and says that my shirt is stupid - I know that she wants me. There is no difference. C&F is simply a *competent* way of flirting, that says a million and one great things about you. It's still (arguably, depending on semantics) a direct approach in some ways. It's just a direct approach that girls like, because it still shows that you are willing to walk away - you're interested, but you can take it or leave it. So that said, you can see how "You're my new girlfriend.. No wait, you don't have x-whatever? We're broken up." is not a fractionation technique. It's highly competent flirting, but its not *actually* conveying that you don't want her in a way where she really believes it.
**If I had to pinpoint one reason why guys who come to this stuff have trouble getting results, its what is outlined in this post. Girls are used to sex going down in a certain way. Walking up to girls and overtly trying to pick them up goes against what they're used to. It's a violation of social norms. Girls will tolerate it as cute, and they'll be interested to see what you'll do. But they'll rarely sleep with you (unless they are at a certain point in their lives where they are open to the idea, which I'll post about below in terms of "fuck rationalizations" - and this does happen often, which accounts for alot of the success that we see with other styles of approaches). Guys go in trying to convince the girl, when they should be BAITING the girl into convincing THEM. As a result, most of the bold moves that guys who come to the scene attempt, wind up not yielding any results.
So back on female psychology then, why do girls like *actual* hard to get guys?
Girls naturally enjoy having their buying temperature pumped up high. So if they can get those emotions out of an interaction, without worrying that the guy will exploit her suggestable state and have sex with her, then she can just get all emotionally aroused around him, and enjoy it. Of course what happens from there is that she backwards rationalizes it, and then convinces herself that she legitimately wants the guy. From there, she decides that she's going to get the guy, and starts chasing him in a manner as unsophisticated and blatantly obvious as how a pissed drunk AFC would chase a girl that he wants at a party. She'll kino him, giggle and scream around him, compliment him, signal her friends to help her, and try to isolate him.
Notice, as this post goes on, that this last paragraph explains why just getting a girls' buying temperature up high is not good enough, and that she actually has to chase. It's because of the backwards rationalization process, and the sexual hook point that she crosses over as a result. The S/C switch (screen/chase) gets flipped.
There are also issues of validation at work. Notice that if you tell a girl "I hate you", she starts touching you immediately, and begs to know why. Notice that if you engage the whole set, but actively ignore the choice girl, she'll start trying to get you to talk to her. This is all validation. It's more validating for the often insecure hot girls, to sleep with a guy who will reinforce that she is beautiful.
Think about your last cute girlfriend. She was cute. She was great in bed. But sooner or later, you got used to it, and took it for granted. Your relationship started stagnating. Then you're out at a party one night, and all these guys are giving her attention. Her friends are there, and she's having a great time just doing her own thing. All of a sudden, she looks different. She seems different. You say to your friend, "You know man, I was just thinking how cool Kathy is. I really want to stick with her." Then she comes over, and sits with you. And its like "Wow, I actually have this girl with me. This is awesome".
Haa - she's no different than she was an hour ago when you were sick of her. But when you can tell that someone doesn't need you, they just SEEM different. There's something about it that's hard to articulate. But what it boils down to, is that all of a sudden, this person's attention has become a source of validation for you. And as a result, they seem more attractive. (BTW: I use the paragraph before this one as a killer routine in sets, except I take out the part about stagnation and focus more on how I know that I appreciate someone and the positive sides of it).
In addition to the validation issue, there are basic genetic/status explainations and accounts for why hard to get guys are appealing. Very basically, guys who are sexually pre-selected by other girls because of their genetics and/or social status will be hard to get, because they can't be bothered with chasing women. They simply walk around, and girls chase them. Chasing a girl is in some ways subcommunicating that you are not one of these guys. If you go to the high class venues in Los Angeles, the mere act of actively picking up is looked down on by the highly socially proofed guys. They'll say things like "That guy over there is trying to pull ass. Kick him out."
A counter argument is that an alphamale will see a girl that he wants, and will just go up and assume the sell. This can also work, if you genuinely come across that way, and if you have the followup to back it up congruently.
Generally though, this is uncommon. Natural PUAs generally just walk around, and girls give them AIs (approach invitations) or make it really easy for them by throwing themselves at them, in a way that most surrounding men just don't recognize (and women don't acknowledge, as this would be a breach of "Secret Society" to admit what's happening, and would break down their whole system of secretly being the CHOOSERS). Note, that the idea of the alphamale who does approaches in society is a SOCIAL MISCONCEPTION. This rarely happens. Generally, natural alphamales do not do cold approaches. I've travelled all over North America and Europe, and I rarely see it. I know exactly what to look for - and I *rarely* see them initiating cold approaches. It happens only in certain communities, like London and NYC. But this is very very uncommon, and even in these communities 99% of the naturals who get laid often are still not doing cold approaches.
The ideas that "men take all the risks in escalation" and "men do the approaching, women do the receiving", that the academic community of psychologists and zoologists have espoused is BAD DATA. It is literally a fallacy and blemish of the academic community. It is a pathetic and glaring example of the follies of academia's white ivory tower armchair theorism, from eggheads who couldn't put any of their theory into practice if you gave them 10 years of prepare it (this is a gripe that I have as a student of political and analytic philosophy, that I see transferred over into this field as well). What these social scientists don't see (AFCs that they are), while they're watching all of the interactions that they supposedly use as empirical data in their published studies (which influence social understandings and thus social conditioning), is that while the men are the ones approaching and escalating, it is the women who are throwing themselves at these clueless men, until they do something. So in that case, the woman has virtually ALREADY DECIDED that she wants the man, and from there she just doesn't admit it (secret society breach), but rather throws herself at the guy until he escalates. She even puts up silly shit tests like (this from a double lay that SB007 and I did on a 2set that we pulled) "Just because you're renting that hotel, doesn't mean we're going up with you."... and later on in the night .... "just because we came up here, doesn't mean we're sleeping with you.." And typical AFCs, will say "Wow, we really plowed through that resistance", when in fact these girls had chosen to sleep with SB007 and I LONG before we'd taken them back to the hotel that we rented right in front of them. We were the hard to get guys, and just let them play out their dramatic act of throwing themselves at us in subtle ways, while pretending that they we didn't know what was happening. And then we allowed them to structure the extraction while making it look like it was our idea and not their fault, and then afterwards they denied responsibility for what took place, while they still email us regularly and want to meet up again. These girls would claim that we chose them, when in fact they chose us - which few people realize is the way it almost always happens.
The idea that "girls choose" also stems from the male/female social dynamic in our society, and the practises and habits that spawn from it. Men are unconsciously giving sexual validation to attractive women all day long, in one way or another. It's either they're checking them out, asking them the time, trying to make small talk, or pivoting left instead of right as they walk out of a room - when it would be faster to pivot left but he can catch a glimpse of her by pivoting right. Girls are all too aware of this stuff. It's built into them. They also go to the club religiously, to relish the process of guys buying them drinks and checking them out, and then shooting them down. A quote over from literally the hottest girl on my campus two months ago after an off-night: "I'm so depressed. No guys approached me tonight. I would never get together with a guy from a club, but I can't believe that I didn't get approached."
So what winds up happening, is that girls get into a pattern of not seeking out sex. They tend to go in cycles, where rather than chasing sex, they simply decide to give it up at arbitrary times. "This is the day that I will give it up." So for example, a typical girl will have a "revenge" fuck, a "just broke up with my boyfriend rebound" fuck, a "I haven't gotten laid in exactly 6 months" fuck, a "I'm on vacation and there are no social consequences and I just want to have fun" fuck, a "I need to revalidate myself being snubbed to prove I'm beautiful" fuck, a "romantic tryst adventure" fuck, a "jump on the sword so my friend can have her guy" fuck, a "I haven't gone home with a guy before, and all my friends have and I want to try it" fuck, etc etc etc. Then of course there is the "I've been dating this guy 3 months, and he provides well and its time to give it up now" fuck, which is the one that we typically aren't concerned about on this chat forum.
The girl has had sex available to her continually, but she can't "give it up" at every opportunity that comes around, because she'd wind up sleeping with 15,000 different men by the time she was finished. So instead, she comes up with rationalizations of when and where to give it up.
Thus, it is the case that girls are in the habit of making the choice. The second that they see that the guy is trying to make the choice for them, the sequence is broken, and their auto-pilot response kicks in and they automatically go back to screening him (even if they like him), just as they had on every other day prior to this one. (Don't make the mistake of thinking that you still don't have to do the work in making up BS excuses so that it isn't the girls' fault, once the ball is rolling. That is a different story. It still has to be "not hard fault". What's being discussed here is a separate issue from that).
This is the fallacy that guys make when approaching. They think that they can choose the girl, because they've pumped her buying temperature and she's been receptive to it. In practice though, if the S/C Switch doesn't flip, she'll still just sit back and enjoy the emotions, without having to give up anything in return. That's when you get situations where the girl will hang with you alll night, but won't give up her #, or she'll give it but she'll flake, or she'll give insurmountable LMR even if you extract.
That's because the right SEQUENCE hasn't been initiated, to make her "Today is the day" switch flip (where she'll pick from one of the many fuck-rationalizations, in the heat of the moment). And that sequence is "Guy is attractive. I can't take it anymore, so today is the day. I choose guy. I throw myself at him in oblique ways that he can't directly prove is me actually doing it. He eventually notices my actions and picks me up. I do nothing to help it move along, but if he makes everything happen and alleviates me of responsibility then it happens. He takes the credit for picking me up." The sequence is NOT "Guy walks up and tries to attract me. I decide that I'm attracted. I let him fuck me."
For that reason, the guy may have switched every attraction switch in the book in terms of buying temperature, but unless she is the one making the choice, the S/C switch will not be flipped. She is attracted, but her thought process is STILL occupied with trying to find every reason possible not to let anything happen.
She must switch from the typical mode of perpetual screening, to chasing. Her THOUGHT PROCESS must be switched. She must believe that you are a guy who is a source of attraction (ie: buying temperature escalation), but that you are not intentionally doing it to her. This is the same reason that if you tell a girl that you study 'pickup', she will be offended. You are breaking the sequence that is protected via the Secret Society, so to speak. You are messing up their ability to make a "good" choice.
From there, she has switched into chase mode. She is no longer dwelling whatsoever on why she shouldn't do anything (as she would be perpetually, if she thought that you were trying to lay her). Now, she's focused only on how to make it happen with you. Her thought process has changed. The S/C Switch has been flipped. She's focused solely on making it happen (except that she's not admitting to herself that she's trying to "get laid" - nope - she's just trying to continue the interaction back to somewhere that it could happen, despite that she deep down knows that she IS trying to get laid, but won't actively admit it to herself).
So that said, how do you trip that switch early on? Let's look at some straight tactics.
*****
FLIPPING THE S/C SWITCH, VIA TIMED FRACTIONATION ON BUYING TEMPERATURE SPIKES:
What is a buying temperature spike? You've all seen it. It's when you do or say something to give the girl a quick shot of emotions. Like a C&F remark where she goes "Oh!" and swats you. Or you tell her that you know something that she wants to know bad, and she goes "OMG OMG OMG, tell me tell me tell me!" Or when you run a really tight story that has her dying laughing or excited or intrigued. Or if you do a DHV, like the coin snatch trick or Mystery's 3 and 7 routine, and she freaks out. Or a great joke. Or even just coming in strong with good bodylanguage and tonality, and sucking up the attention of everyone in the set, and her buying temperature shoots up (you see this when you go in with an opener, and the girls just jump to talk to you or answer your question). Whatever.
You see it on their face, and you see it in the way that they turn their bodylanguage towards you, and when they kino you. Her buying temperature has shot up. Usually, it hits in abrupt bursts. Little spikes on the graph. You know you can't *maintain* this level indefinetely, but you can hit that level in bursts.
These buying temperature spikes are the right time to start doing subtle takeaways. That is, not the kind of takeaway where you walk off into another set. Rather, you just break eyecontact with her, and face away a bit. You *exactly* what the girls do to you, when you're gaming them in a club, and they get distracted because a peice of your material is not strong enough. You turn to your friends or the bar or the dancefloor, and you make it look like you're about to leave.
*But*, girls are very much accostomed to getting what they want. So unlike most guys who will give up, their instant reaction is to go "HEY HEY HEY, keep talking.. What were you saying??? What???"
That is your first step in getting the girls chasing. You have conveyed that you might walk away at any point, and all of the aforementioned issues are now dealt with. You are an attractive guy, and you have very clearly (in such a subtle way) demonstrated that you are not trying to get her. IOW, the natural process of her becoming attracted to you and choosing you has begun.
This kind of timing takes time and practice to cultivate. It can also be learned right off the opener. Here are some examples:
OPENER CLASS: "BAIT OPENERS" - SPIKE BUYING TEMPERATURE, AND TAKEAWAY TO BAIT HER TO OPEN YOU
1- "I'm shy":
My friend Shannon walks up to a set. I walk up to her and she introduces me. I say "Hey, I'm shy" with a super cocky look on my face, and turn to Shannon and say "Let's go outside". Here I looked like a cocky cool and fun guy, who they were about to get a little bit of buying temperature entertainment from - gratuitous entertainment for their night. But I *spotted* that look on their face, so I automatically took it away. *But*, I left a hook that they could grab on to. I said "Hey, I'm shy", and then turned to Shannon as if I were about to leave. In fact, I wasn't, but knew that they'd force me to stay. From there, they scream "Why are you shy?! Why are you shy?! Don't go.. Why are you shy?!", and I roll back in and game them. You can also use "I hate you", "I hate you guys", or "I hate girls". These work amazingly well as followups, and work well when you're merging into a set with your wing. Again, the girls say "Why?? Whyyyy?!??"
2- Eyecodes and bluffing that you're entering the set, and flashing peacocky zipper:
I walk by some guys who are gaming a set poorly. I walk right up to the set, and do "let's go" girl eye code to the girls (I roll my eyes, like "These guys are tools"). I also make little eye movements down to where their hands are too eagerly touching the girls, and make eye movements at the beers that they bought for them, and smirk right after I see them. The girls know what's up - they can tell that I know the deal of how women are. I walk right up like I'm about to out-alpha the guys, but then shake my head a bit like "This is too lame for me to even bother with", and then back away while still maintaining eye contact with the girls. Here I am using my PRESENCE as something that will give them a quick buying temperature level spike, and then I am withdrawing. I then proceed to tug on the zipper of my very peacocky zipper covered (BAIT) vest, and look from her eyes down to my vest. I have provided the bait. The girls immediately go "Hey! That vest is awesome! Let me see! Let me see!", and blow off the guys and jump over to me.
3- Take over set with C&F comment and AMOG blaster:
I look over from my barstool, and plow in with booming tonality some C&F comments, and proceed to shoot a quick out-alpha routine on the AMOG. For anyone who read my FR last week, it was a coment about a girl saying that everyone thought she had fake breasts. I yelled over "That's great - they'll give you boyancy if we're ever lost at sea. You'll be the only one to survice". Both girls look at me, and are intrigued. Then the AMOG says "Hey, this is my girlfriend", and I reply with "Haa, cool.. You guys look so similar, I thought that you guys were brother and sister. If you guys have kids they'll look like (I do a funny impression)." I then make a comment to the guy that he owns this end of the bar, turn my barstool around, and takeaway. Again, I have come in with COOLER presence than everyone else. I added energy to the group, which spiked up the girls' buying temperature, and then noticing that I immediately took it away. The girls immediately re-open me.
4- Opinion opener:
This is something that I do all the time with Sickboy007. Like all the time. This is key to our game. We roll into set talking amongst ourselves. Like we are the coolest guys in the club, and not needy at all. We're having more fun in our own conversation than we could be talking to anyone else. (Note: We usually actually ARE, so this is congruent. We talk about cool shit while we're in the field, and joke around alot. This keeps our state up, and is much better than talking game in field and getting too analytical). Despite being both guys, because we are both cool we actually provide more social proof to eachother than a female pivot would. So right off the bat, we look like best friends who could care less if they'll talk to us or not, because we are cooler and more interesting than them. We tap one of the girls, and run the first line of the opinion opener. They're thinking "Wow, those cool looking guys we saw are actually coming over to talk to us". Then they give their answer, and I we immediately turn our bodylanguage away from facing them, and into eachother. Then we assimilate their answer into our conversation, and transition into joking around about other shit that the girls DON'T GET, but it sounds interesting. So the girls see that we basically just tooled them to add to our own fun, and they can see that our conversation is so fucking interesting that they want to join it very badly. After all, we weren't rude. We just didn't follow them like puppydogs, like most guys would. So notice that the hook has been laid. The girls will interrupt us, and say 'Why did you ask us that? What about David Bowie?? What?? What?? How old is your little sister??" They keep trying to get in, and win us into a conversation.
**Notice that in all these cases, I'm laying the bait on the hook, and then pulling it back. I don't actually walk away. I just make the initial body movements that I'm about to walk away, because of the way that I pivot my body. But I'm not actually walking away. In fact, I'm not going anywhere. I know that if I lay the hook right, they'll start trying to re-open ME. It's all in hitting it at the *exact* moment, and then turning as if you're about to walk away, but providing some bait that they can open you off of, so they don't have to think too hard (God forbid).
IMPORTANT:
In addition to setting the hard to get frame, there are other things being laid down here that will help your pickup as it goes along. When you come in with a straight opener, and then start talking, she will often go into "receptive mode". An example that I do in seminar to explain this, is I'll be talking for an hour, and then out of nowhere I'll point to a student and say "Hey man. Do me a favour. Say the coolest thing that you can think of right now. Just say any random cool thing. Whatever you want." *Never* has a student been able to do it. They just sit there gawking, and they can't think of a single thing to say. Likewise, nobody else in the room can either. That's because their brain has been in "receive" mode for the last hour. They've been sucking up all the info, and their mental process of calling things up isn't in gear. It's like doing your math homework. Your first problem takes you 10 minutes. Your second one, 5. Then every one after that takes 1 minute each. That's because your brain has engaged into "math mode". Likewise, if the girl is just listening and listening, she won't be able to qualify herself to you very easily, because she's too busy taking what you're saying all in. So what winds up happening (and many guys will recognize this phenomenon), is that a pause occurs in the conversation, and because the girl feels the emotion of discomfort that she can't think of a way to fill it, she immediately says "Cool. Anyway, I have to go dance now". And POW, even though she was digging you, she left because the emotion of not having anything to say sunk her buying temperature so quickly. Another reason, is because by talking so much, you're logically disengaging her so strongly, that the sudden cognitive shift from the emotional saturation of being gamed without having to contribute anything, to suddenly actually having to (God forbid) THINK about what to say, will slam gear shift her brain into logical thinking so fast, that its like slamming your car from 5th to first gear, while driving 100 down the freeway. So better, is to get BOTH her mind thinking of what to say, and buying temperature still escalating. This happens, because she's getting excited by the process of actually gaming you. You've baited her into selling herself on you. This is a basic persuasion tactic. Nothing more. Before she's even had a chance to decide whether or not she even wants you, you're already taking away the option. But of what she's seen of you, you spike her buying temperature, so she felt high attraction for the second that you were there. That way, when its time for her to pipe in, she can easily think of something to say, and the set will hold, AND she'll be more likely to be able to qualify herself to you.
And that said, they often WILL do things to qualify themselves to you. You can AMPLIFY this again, with some playful hard to get tactics.
This is a really fucking key peice. Pay close attention to it. Say for example, you went in with "I'm shy", and then pulled out. They'll say "Why are you shy? We're nice girls!" You can reply "Umm yeah.. You're OK.. Oh shit, you have a belly button ring. Don't show me that." Immediately, you'll see them jumping up and pulling your face down to look at their peircing. They'll say "Look at it! Loooook at it!!!!" Then you look at it, and like they've entranced you, you talk to them a bit more.
The same can be done after you exchange signs. They'll tell you that they're Libras, and you say "I can't talk to you anymore.. You're trouble". This is as if you're moderating your own buying temperature. You turn your back on them, and they'll grab your shoulder and say "NO!! You tell me your sign NOW!! Are you a Libra too?!?!"
Another one you'll see alot, is that you run the hook, and pull back. Typical girl tactics, they'll start touching you. So say that they touch your shoulder. You can act like it feels really good. You mumble "That actually feels really good - my shoulder is so sore. You have to stop doing that.. Stop.. Seriously.. That's a bad idea.." They'll do it more and more. "OK, you're getting me all emotional.. enough.."
Even without hook openers though (which I only use a small percentage of the time), I can still engage the chasing just further into the set. It doesn't require that you do it right off the opener like in the case of hook openers. Its convenient if you can do it early, but it isn't required at all. The only time limit is that the dynamic isn't set in stone that you're too giving and eager. So long as I avoid that scenario, I will only do it off the opener if I spot a buying temperature spike. Otherwise, I proceed as normal, until I see it.
I do the same on tonguedowns. I'll be kissing the girl, and then I'll pull back, and mumble "OK, stop.. We seriously have to stop." They'll say "Why?" and keep trying to push more. You say "I'm just getting so....." and then they'll pull you back in. Do this repeatedly. This is an extension to the Style kiss close, where he goes in with "I'm trying so hard not to kiss you right now".
Basically, the idea here is that you BAIT the girl, by giving her information on how to seduce you, but telling her not to do it.
The thing is though, that you have to be congruent with it. You actually use your bodylanguage at various points, to deliberately try to screw up your own pickup. Because girls are used to getting what they want, they'll re-initiate it HARD. This is NOT just a verbal thing. It's a bodylanguage thing. Girls respond to how you use your body. Try to speak using your body.
This is very similar to martial arts. It's like "parry, strike, dodge, parry, strike, dodge.. strike.. etc etc.." You're going "Hit up buying temperature, pull back.. Give her an idea of how to seduce you, pull back.. Give a bit.. Hit up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Hit up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Give her an idea.. Pull back.. etc etc"
From there, when I do extractions or get a phone number, I also make them work for it. Often, they'll be walking away and say they have to go. I'll say "OK" and just look at them blank. They'll immediately offer their # or to take mine. But that aside, I also use bait to make them go for it. I'll wait until they say something cool, and I'll act like a girl whose buying temperature just shot up. I'll look intrigued or excited and say "Wow. Geez, I have to take you to x-place". I'll pick something that I know they want bad. Something that they'll react to. Or I'll just use something ordinary, but I'll map out a scenario (using future adventures projection of us doing awesome stuff), and just go with that. They'll immediately offer up their number. Then I'll say "OK cool", and just change the subject. Just like how a girl does to guys. What's next is funny to watch. She'll start trying to naturally "slip in" that I should take her number. I'll keep saying "Yeah cool, I'll get it later". I keep doing this, until she's asked me to exchange numbers around 5-15 times over the next hour. Often they'll just ask me for my number out of concern that I won't call. When I finally acknowledge that I'll call is when she does something impressive. Then I'll say "WOW.. What was your number again? I'm definetely calling you." Moreover, girls will also try to extract me for food after the club closes. I'll say "Yeah awesome!" but then turn to my wing and keep talking to him. They keep pushing for it, and they'll run and grab their friend and try to make their friend convince me as well. Then I'll capitulate. I may not necessarily wait for them to initiate it. Many just won't. So instead, I'll wait for them to do something to impress me, and then I'll suggest it. If they're giving me a backrub, I may say "I'm hungry. I want to go to Denny's after this."
But I do the same in the other direction. I act just like a flakey stimulus seeking girl. If they bore me, I just walk off in distraction. If something interesting happens, I'll walk over to it to check it out. If a good song comes on, I may just get up and walk away. If they say something I don't like, I'll lean away and start looking at other girls. They have to keep tapping me on the shoulder and tell me to keep talking, in order for me to stay attentive.
So how do you seduce in a case where the act of seducing would be incongruent to everything you've built up. They play it up, and the girl tries to get them, but then they stupidly go against everything that they've been doing get them attracted all this time, and start trying to seduce them. This is incongruent. It kills attraction instantly. It relies on some fallacy that the girl likes you for your personality, when in fact she may, but it is not relevant to her *attraction* for you. You're switching gears too quickly, from 5th to 1st gear, in one foul swoop. It doesn't work. Attraction dies instantly. I've had girls who went completely cold, even after spending hours with me - all because I dropped the hard to get act, and started trying to escalate - without doing the right transition work (I will explain).
Instead, you have to play it smooth. This requires you to have strong verbal skills and calibration skills. The girl has been getting you comfortable being closer and closer to her the whole time, so its fine if you're right next to her, and even in kino. But you have to keep presenting challenges to her, and punishing and rewarding her with those challenges. She'll say something that I like, and I'll lean in like I'm about to kiss her. Then I won't. I'll slowly start moving back, until she says something else that I like. Then I move in closer than the first time. Then I move slowly back. Then she says something that I like, and I move right in to kiss her, and say "You're getting me all emotional", and pull back. Then I keep my face up to hers, and we talk face to face, with lips grazing eachother, and she says something I like and turn my face and stop talking, and then her talking will merge into triangular gazing and my lips will graze hers more and then we're making out. I may also say "I'm not going to" at different points, when she's obviously trying to move in to kiss me. If she says "Not going to what?", I won't answer. Rather, I'll just keep talking in the quiet face-to-face way that we've been doing.
Also - again, you can do things like "You're wearing Channel? Don't let me smell it.. Don't..." (she'll practically tackle you and put her neck up to your face to make you smell it). Then you can phase shift, but then snap your own state and move back. But as you're moving back, you say things to pump her buying temperature.
A GREAT thing to reward girls for is also dancing in front of you, or in between your legs. Although they'd never admit it (Secret Society Breach), dancing is a sexual exhibition. So if you can make her perceive that her dancing is what's getting your buying temperature up, she'll feel fully qualified. You kiss her, but you still don't keep trying. You just do it, and then sit there blank afterwards. She still has more to do.
Remember that this is like fucking with magnets. You're constantly backing off, but doing it SPECIFICALLY at a time when you know you've spiked buying temperature, so that she'll chase the stimulus.
That's the part that's so hard to convey in text. I show this to guys in workshop no problem, but I can't explain it that well. You have to actually take the time to mentally catalogue all of the little bodylanguage mannerisms that girls use, when they're getting distracted. And then you use these on them. And when you use them, you have to TIME it just at the right time - right when you hit on the right emotion. Always remember that there are so many fucking little ways that you reveal that you really want her. It only takes the slightest slip, and the jig is up. You have to be congruent.
Note that if you pull away at the wrong time when her buying temperature is down, she'll backwards rationalize that she is not experiencing attraction, and that she's not attracted to you anymore and that she's HAPPY that you're backing off. This will end it. So you have to have the verbal game and physical coquettishness to play this up properly.
Now as for seducing, this is like trapping an animal that you've baited closer and closer. If you do decide to pounce on her, do it ONLY once she has been baited too close, and she won't be able to get away. What I mean by that, is do it only once you have her lying with you snuggling, and then you can start playing your late game. If you do it prior to that, her physical horniness from contact with you won't have kicked in yet, and she'll have nothing to counter-act the state breaker that you dropping the hard to get act was playing up.
Notice, btw, that there is both a social hook point and a sexual hook point. Style has talked about the "hook point", as the point in the pickup in which the girls have stopped wondering "why is this guy talking to us", and have decided that they don't want you to leave. They'll do things to help the conversation continue, and your life becomes much easier. The same goes down the line, where there is a sexual hook point. You'll see this alot, especially with girls on vacation. This is where they've actually decided that they want to hook up with you. If you get this kind of girl, you'll notice zero LMR down the line. If you escalate, she will not resist IF she feels that she worked hard enough to get you. If not, then her desire to meet a challenge has not been fulfilled, and instead she thinks "Haa, he wants me for no reason like everyone else. What a chump."
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Anyway, in summary, a few points to have taken from this are:
1- There is a natural social process that occurs, which women don't want you to know about. They want you to think that you're the one who picked them up, so they don't have to "be responsible" for it. However, this fallacy has spawned guys in this community to develop pickup styles that violate social practices, in a way that isn't effective. (I violate social practices myself, but in a way that nobody spots). That's why when you talk about hitting on girls, the girls don't like it. But if you ask them "How *would* you like a guy to hit on you?" they have no realistic reply. It's because they secretly know that they pickup guys, but don't admit it publically or even to themselves.
2- Being able to attract a girl is often not enough. Girls find themselves wanting to sleep with various guys that they see all day long. What it takes to actually get laid, is to flip her S/C switch, so that she's decided "Today is the day. This guy is the guy". This is why there are many guys in the scene who can run a tight set, but still don't get laid. They have a certain part of their game down, but need to work more on flipping that fucking S/C Switch.
3- Being aware of buying temperature spikes, and knowing WHEN to pull away is key. If you just pull away at arbitrary times, you will not get a result.
4- Guys think that looks is the most important part of a pickup. In fact, its brains. You have to be smart as fucking hell to do this stuff. You have to think fast on your feet, and you have to calibrate. Most guys don't have a repertoire of material that will spike buying temperature, and fall into a trap of talking about situational stuff, which girls just interpret as you trying to get rapport with them, and makes you unchallenging.
5- There is a difference between a girl being attracted to you, and a girl wanting to fuck you. If you are TOO GIVING in set, then you run the risk of being the first guy, not the second. You have to be giving, but strategically.
6- To implant the idea of seducing you into the girls' mind, you have to have a repertoire of material to do so. That is BOTH material to entertain sets so you can pull a girl from her group or open a lone girl in a way that doesn't set off an autopilot response, but also you have to have material that gets her thinking that she wants you and gets her chasing you. This material is a combination of regular material that you use to spike buying temperature, and then pulling back, as well as recognizing anything that you can misinterpret as her trying to seduce you, and then pulling back from that as well, which raises the challenge and makes her do it more, and then you can play with it in the ways that were mentioned.
Tyler Durden
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Here are some Buying Temperature routines.
1. Lockup - Buying Temperature - Escalation By Tyler Durden
....
At this point in my game, my focus is on pushing girls into BUYING TEMPERATURE, recognizing it, and ESCALATING.
In field, I have the terms:
-lockup
-unlocked
-buying temperature levels
-escalation
...
2. 10 way to Pump up Buying Temperature Tactics by AsainPlayboy
OK, as us Pick Up Artists (PUAs) should know, Buying Temperature is the woman's emotional receptivity and her level of general attraction to the PUA at a given time.
(Note, that there is slight, but subtle difference between general attraction and sexual attraction. You can have one without the other, though then you run the risk of turning from the really cool, fun guy into the really cool, fun friend.)
...
3. Stealing Horny Chicks by Tyler Durden
The girl hits full buying temperature. Maybe you did it. Maybe another natural player did it. Maybe her boyfriend pissed her off and de-validated her. Maybe she's on vacation, and she decides she wants it. Whatever the way, she's decided she wants sex TONIGHT, and somebody is going to get it
...
definition of BT
A sudden increase in the target’s buying temperature, usually initiated through a routine involving kino escalation.
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There are certain routines and gambits that quickly increase a target’s BT. It can involve cavemanning and strong kino escalation. A PUA can also go in a group with high energy and high five all of the girls, and give them a hug afterward. Pumping buying temperature can be dangerous as BT can be transferred to another AMOG.
One effective strategy is to allow a wing to bump up BT and then come back into the set with stronger energy levels. It is also possible for a PUA to AMOG a set and take advantage of the BT already built up from the previous guy. AMOGing a set triggers a biological reaction for the woman’s BT to automatically increase in favor of winner in the AMOG battle.
Usage:
I was able to generate some BT spikes through my dance floor game.
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Related Terms: BT, DHV, DHV spike, IOI, Kino escalation, AMOG
Related Links:
■10 way to Pump up Buying Temperature Tactics – by AsianPlayboy
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2003 08 07 07:04:00 AM EDT
Author: TylerDurden
website: www.fastseduction.com
subject: Lockup - Buying Temperature - Escalation ...Chick is unresponsive. Ask questions, she says "I don't know" or "no", or any blowoff answer. She holds tense shoulders, and if you say "high-5" or try to physically displace her...
Hey guys.. I've been busy as hell, and no time to post. I'm having an awesome summer.
It's late, and I'm feeling kind of manic (therefore in the mood to write and write).
I don't have time to post actively anymore, but here's a pile stuff I've been up to lately. I hope you guys enjoy it. It should shine some light on my style. I'm not criticizing other people's styles, who you can learn from also, since they obviously get the results at the end of the day. This is MY understanding of game.
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At this point in my game, my focus is on pushing girls into BUYING TEMPERATURE, recognizing it, and ESCALATING.
In field, I have the terms:
-lockup
-unlocked
-buying temperature levels
-escalation
LOCKUP:
Chick is unresponsive. Ask questions, she says "I don't know" or "no", or any blowoff answer. She holds tense shoulders, and if you say "high-5" or try to physically displace her in any way whatsoever, she says the words "I'm scared / you're scaring me / etc". This does NOT mean she is physically afraid. This is like a chick saying "not yet" when you go to kiss her too early in the night. She's JUST saying "I'm not at buying temperature yet". A chick who is locked up cannot even move or give a proper answer for a million dollars. She is locked up. Causes of lockup can be that she sees her friend hitting buying temperature for you too quickly, and she doesn't like it, or that you have conveyed too much eagerness too early.
UNLOCKED:
She is now OPEN to being gamed. Girls KNOW what you're doing when you run material. They may not know its pre-canned, but they know what it means when you tease them - its SEXUAL COMMUNICATION and they know what's up. If a chick is locked up, she isn't even OPEN to this sort of communication. Once unlocked, you can now begin gaming.
Chicks become UNLOCKED when you don't telegraph interest (check the 25 points checklist), and therefore trust your intentions. Also, when you CONVEY PERSONALITY, and they therefore can FILL IN the canvas of your life, they increase trust.
SIGNS of chick being unlocked - KINO TESTS. Hold out your palms upwards. If she puts her hands there, squeeze them. If she squeezes back, she's unlocked for sure. Likewise, tap her, if she taps back playfully, she's unlocked and sexually engaged probably.
BUYING TEMPERATURE LEVELS:
-enough for her to sit there while you game her
-enough to show an IOI like a giggle
-enough to show an IOI and kino you
-enough to show alot of IOIs and ask you questions
-enough for you to venue change her
-enough for you to kino HER, and give her IOIs, and she still likes it (usually after qualification phase, because she now feels she EARNED your attention, rather than you just want to fuck her like every other guy on the planet)
-enough for you to get physical with her
-enough for you to fuck her
As EACH Buying Temperature increase, the chick will usually SHIT TEST you, as a way of TRYING to throw herself OUT OF STATE. She shit tests by doing things that if you react too seriously, she'll get upset and therefore be thrown out of state. By passing shit tests, Buying Temperature is AMPLIFIED. This is like when Eddy (whitedragonPUA) posted about his HBRugby Lay report She kept punching him all night. After he laid her, he asked her why. She said "I just thought you'd go away"... She knew she was hitting buying temperature, and didn't want to succumb to it so she shit tested by hitting him and hoped that he would back off and she would come down. Think back to when you tried to kiss a girl on a date, and she said "NOT YET". She doesn't mean NO. She ONLY means "I'm not at buying temperature yet.. Give me more gaming". Likewise, you try to venue change a girl, and she says "No. But I still want to talk to you". You keep gaming her, and a few minutes later you change venues. This was because you tried to ESCALATE PRIOR TO ATTAINING THE RIGHT LEVEL OF BUYING TEMPERATURE.
There are many examples of chicks trying to throw themselves out of state when hitting buying temperature, but then by passing shit tests it is actually amplified: Chick feels herself getting horny. HB: "You're a player". PUA: "Yeah. so what is it that turns you on so much about players anyway" (Response works firstly because you didn't disagree, so she can't get mad for you lying to her and break her own state, and secondly because you say something COCKY, which hits her emotionally, and therefore raises buying temperature)
EG: Chick says "we shouldn't be doing this"... PUA responds "yeah, we shouldn't be doing this" but KEEPS going.
In both cases, the chick feels her buying temperature increasing unusually rapidly (because of the PUA skillset), and tries to stop what's happening.
When Buying Temperature is hit too quickly, it is called FRYING OUT HER CIRCUITS. This is like when chicks giggle uncontrollably and run away from you even though they like you, or when a chick is at a rock concert and starts screaming and crying when the rockstar comes out. She has hit buying temperature so fast, her circuits fry out and she freaks.
"Routine Outcome Dependence" is a phenomena where you're too HOOKED on seeing chicks increasing buying temperature. EG: "Calling a chick a powerpuff girl will make her giggle"... So when a chick isn't giggling, you try to FORCE it by calling her a Powerpuff girl. EXCEPT, she KNOWS that not normal to say that to a chick whose all serious, so knows something is up (this is actually the 26th 'trying too hard to qualify' thing I guess - routine outcome dependence). The SAME goes for when she's all serious, and you try TOO HARD to seem happy and fun. She KNOWS that you're doing it to get with her, and it doesn't make sense. That does NOT mean state match. It just means MODERATE and don't appear PHONEY. Most Buying Temperature tools are to be used to AMP a state that you see building. She starts giggling a BIT, and you call her a powerpuff girl, and now she giggles a LOT. If she's not giggling AT ALL, then maybe it was the wrong time. She DETECTS that you were consciously TRYING to increase her buying temperature, and blows you off. Field experience is KING, nobody is above it. Field experience helps us to develop an INTUITION of WHERE and WHEN to use the particular material.
TO INCREASE BUYING TEMPERATURE:
(First, remember that there are PRECONDITIONS to a girl even being OPEN to you start to affect her this way. For a set of HB10s, they often may not even ALLOW themselves to be affected by your game, unless you have social proof or status somehow.. Likewise, even for a lesser HB7, if you are smelly and fat and gross, she won't be open to it, even if what you're doing is proper tight game)
--Pump them through emotions rapidly.. (I personally use a detailed system of building routines that increase buying temperature.. basically, routines hit emotions through languaging or demonstration.. not hard.. this way I can build routines on the fly and not rely on canned material - infinite routines via proper understanding or structure and basic creativity) ...
THINK MAKEUP SEX: How good is makeup sex compared to normal sex? WHY? Because you've been pumped through so many emotions. This is what NORMAL sex is like for chicks - hence they like badboys, they like skydiving and sex in exciting places, they like makeup sex, etc etc..
Think Swingdancing routine, think Rollerblading routine, think puppydog routines, think jerk routines, think magic, think funny kino shit like hitting them and spinning them, think cocky stuff. It runs them through various emotions FAST. Story telling must be run in a way that is melodic, and talks fast enough to keep them captivated, but also runs them through emotions at the right progression without talking fast like you're trying too hard.
--Talking from the diaphragm in a fun, non-threatening way. NOT GOING SEXUAL right away in front of her friends (this is not for picking up lone girls, I'm talking public gatherings where I do my pickup.. this is also seduction in the WRONG VENUE, save it for ISOLATION.. don't be tacky and try to seduce her FULLY in PUBLIC). Remember, talking from the CHEST and not the THROAT is key here. You must OVERPOWER her reality with your tonality. This way of talking CUTS THROUGH the noise of the venue, without appearing like you're yelling. Look at how your dad talked to you when he was angry. That is BAD and causes lockup and no buying temperature increase. Look at guys who have FLUCTUATING and FUN tonality. But who are also ALPHA, by virtue of their PROJECTION (diaphragm). Just TALKING without asking them boring questions will unlock and increase buying temperature.
-C&F WORKS because you hit a sharp emotion "Oh that cocky guy, how could he say that!", but because its FUNNY at the same time as cocky, she doesn't get upset. KEY: Making them LAUGH disarms you increasing buying temperature, because the laughter disarms any discomfort.
-PUSH/PULL WORKS because as buying temperature increases, chicks have NATURAL tendency to throw themselves out of state. By gaming them, but pushing them AWAY, they have PERMISSION to ALLOW themselves to go deeper and deeper into state, because they don't worry that you'll exploit that and fuck them "after all, he did say hands off the merchandise.. I can feel this way, and he still won't fuck me".. This is why chicks LOVE gay guys. Because they feel they won't fuck them even if they hit buying temperature. So they can walk around all day at high buying temperature, and not worry that there will be consequences.
FALSE DISQUALIFIERS AND FALSE TIME CONSTRAINTS WORK because the chick says "oh well he can't fuck me.. I can feel free to feel this".. Or "well he's about to leave, so I can feel free to feel this way"
-25 POINTS OF NOT TELEGRAPHING INTEREST WORK because chicks don't worry that you'll fuck them while their buying temperature increases, since you're practically the first guy not to kino them and lean into them and show interest in them, even when they're hot and talking to you. Hence, they react "are you gay", because they can't GRASP that you're not returning their IOIs. They don't say "are you gay" to a 64 year old gay man. They say it to an attractive guy who is turning them on, but not telegraphing interest like EVERY other guy would when she's touching them and all that ("hands off the merchandise"), so they think "WTF, this guy's gay", and ask it all obnoxiously (obnoxious, because its none of their business, and they'd never ask that of a gay guy they're not attracted to).
SUBTLETY: Not telegraphing interest unlocks and ALLOWS buying temperature to increase (because if you convey interest, she won't let herself since she knows you'll fuck her), but it doesn't necessarily increase buying temperature in and of itself. It simply grants PERMISSION to the chick to allow herself to indulge in going into state. As soon as you convey interest (eg: breach one of the 25 points), she may think "shit I can't feel like this", and cuts if off in a fit of anti-slut defense or whatever. SO: Buying temperature is increased by hitting many emotions rapidly, while being unlocked is more from not telegraphing interest (25 points). They are discreet, but run parallel. ONE EXCEPTION: By not telegraphing interest, that MAY sometimes increase buying temperature in and of itself, because the chick may ASSUME that its IMPLICIT social proof (ie: she's not good enough for you, because you lay hotter chicks).
ESCALATION:
At each WAYPOINT, we must ESCALATE.
Buying temperature increases, they want COMFORT. They have COMFORT, they want SEXUAL ("phase shift", etc).
When they hit buying temperature, they say "what's your name", etc, because they want to KNOW the guy who is getting them all into state.
COMFORT BUILDERS (we no longer use RAPPORT, because rapport is one of MANY comfort builders.. Comfort building is the better term IMO, because we're trying to build COMFORT into her being at high buying temperature, rather than trying to get rapport, which connection, trust, commonality, divulging vulnerability, conveying personality and reverse EV, etc etc ALL serve to build comfort.. So RAPPORT is only ONE PART of comfort building):
-It takes roughly 4-7 hours to lay a chick from start to finish (credit Mystery for figuring this out ¬awesomely important, though I didn't realize the importance at the time). Comfort building means BABYSITTING for those hours, while she slowly heats up to be ready for sex - it takes that many hours for her to be ready, unless she's a party chick.
-talking about stuff that DOES NOT pump them through too many sharp emotions rapidly (ie: DROP C&F, drop the crazy exciting shit), but still keeps them into the convo
-talk should convey who you are, so she can fill in the empty canvas and see the PICTURE of 'who is this guy I'm so attracted to' Attraction is THERE - she's at that buying temperature. Comfort building means building COMFORT into the state she's in, so she doesn't put a stop to it.
-include talk about how its NATURAL to feel this way for the right person.. Examples: Evolution Phase shift routine (she feels its EVOLUTIONARY that she feels like this, and backwards rationalizes), or the "I wasn't born with a book on what to do.. I just do what feels comfortable" (chicks KNOW the feeling that certain guys make them comfortable, and ASSUME that they feel this way for YOU"
-SIMULATING THAT *YOU* ARE HITTING BUYING TEMPERATURE: "What's your sign? OH MY GOD I LOVE LIBRAS.. Oh god, I can't talk to you.. you're trouble" (turn away, just like girls whose circuits fry out.. you're TRICKING them to think you're doing what THEY do, since chicks do this shit all the time because they hit buying temperature for retarded arbitrary shit like astrological signs and colognes and shit like that)
FAKING LOCKUP AS PUNISHMENT in 'Punishment/Reward': If you're in comfort building, FAKE the symptoms of lockup. She'll understand what it means when she's like "TD, are you OK?" and I say "I dunno" just like a chick would when she's locked up. She'll grab you and start talking to try to unlock you. For example: HB "I like oranges" PUA "What? Apples. Apples are gross.." (pretends to lock himself up) HB "no no no, I said oranges! Oranges!" PUA "oh shit.. I love oranges.." (pretends to unlock) Congrats, now she's chasing you.
FEAR OF LOSS TO MAINTAIN STATE WITHOUT INTENSE EMOTIONAL UPS AND DOWNS: Some guys complain that in rapport phase (now called "comfort building phase") the girls come out of state. By using punishment reward bit, she'll be chasing you. But ALSO, building in FEAR OF LOSS is effective. Think back to when a girl who you didn't like liked you. Maybe back in high school or some shit. But then you realized that she never liked you. You LOSE the validation you got. You start to obsess. You start to like her. Likewise, you have a state relationship. But she starts to get into another guy. OH SHIT, you're obsessing over her again. Or you make HER jealous, and now she's back into you (even when it was stale). This is the power of FEAR OF LOSS. Fear of loss REMINDS us of how attracted we are.
In comfort building, encorporate fear of loss and punishment/reward, so that you don't suffer the phenomena of losing the chick at rapport phase (aka comfort building phase) because the interaction has lost its charge.
KEYS:
If you FAIL to ESCALATE, the pickup is often OVER.
Example:
1) If you don't stop busting on her, she looses interest after a while, because you're being too emotionally intense for her. She needs COMFORT built into the high buying temperature you're generating. This is why you get guys who are good at opening at attracting, but have difficulty closing unless its a party-chick.
2) If you don't phase shift out of comfort, she gets bored or something (maybe you're beta or not interested)
3) Final escalation - ARGHHHH!! (I got burnt on this FIVE times, until I RECOGNIZED it) If you keep them SEXUAL but don't escalate to FUCK them, its too intense for too long, and they say "I'm tired" or "I feel sick". This is guaranteed. What happens is they get actually QUEASY from you keeping them sexual without fucking them for TOO LONG. If anyone else has had this happen, report back. Have you guys seen this before? Its JUST LIKE the "what's your name" IOI. It's something that CONSISTENTLY HAPPENS under specific circumstances.
QUALIFYING AS A WAY OF 'TRUMPING' SOIs:
When you qualify the chick to you, you've now conveyed to her that you're interested in her for reasons BEYOND her being a nice peice of ass.
So BEFORE, the reason girls in public gatherings would snuff you off when you showed interest was because she thought "he only wants to fuck me".
By making her chase, and then showing her WHY you've found yourself interested in her, she now thinks "well he showed me a signal of interest, but I EARNED it, so its because I'm a Libra and because he felt comfortable talking to me and because I told him I got an A+ in my psych100 class" (If you're interested to read more on this, you can read "pickup of HB10GF" post of mine in my archive, around late last spring, to review how I qualify chicks to me, to convince them they earned it)
If I take a girl's phone#, I find I MUST qualify her prior to taking it. This is because the MERE ACT of phoning her can be a signal of interest. But if I've run my qualification phase, then its NO PROBLEM that I'm telegraphing some interest by phoning, since its WARRANTED.
She's gone into buying temperature, she's chased you, she's EARNED your attention. So now its *OK* that you're showing interest at this point. She'll be fine with it - of course. If you plan to give an SOI in your game, its at THIS POINT that it is less likely to blow you out.
LOGISTICS:
1) Chicks CONSTANTLY look at eachother while they're being pushed into buying temperature. Watch while you sarge, as they CONSTANTLY keep looking at one another to see what state they're in. If they give the "girl code" look that one is not in state, they ALL leave. Chicks NEED to feel that ALL their friends are feeling it TOO, so they don't get looked down on by their friends. This is why social proof is SO important in public gatherings. If ONE chick is not at the SAME buying temperature, then she SEES that her friend will fuck you if she leaves her alone, and she drags her away. You must NOT put a girl TOO FAR into buying temperature in front of her friends, unless you keep them together.
BTW: One reason chicks like socially proofed guys is that they SEE that many other chicks have gone into buying temperature, so its "OK" to allow themselves to do so. Also, if you've read my routine where I get my wingman in on 2sets where his chick isn't liking him, I say "your friend is ignoring my friend.. I don't want him to be lonely.. I'm gonna go", and then YOUR chick will start saying to her locked up friend "no, he's cool.. I like him he's cool.. blah blah", and all of a sudden the previously locked up friend now OPENS UP to your wingman, and now BOTH chicks will fuck you.
2) 2sets are EASY to fclose when you have a competent wing. Why? Because they BOTH go into buying temperature, and since NEITHER will object, it just happens.
3) The smart PUA does as LITTLE as possible to hit the next buying temperature. This way he doesn't exhaust his material, and he doesn't risk the girl FRYING OUT HER CIRCUITS (rock concert style), or possibly her detecting what you're doing and cutting it off. Also, its better, because if she is ONLY at "venue change" buying temperature, then her friends will SENSE this and be less likely to object to you taking her away from them. AFTER you have her away from her friends, you can now pump her up all the way to full buying temperature, and now you've STRATEGICALLY played your game, so that you don't get cockblocked.
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Pump Buying Temperature
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Guys,
im sure we all read about pumping buying temperature in style's book "the game", but im still a bit fuzzy on it.
Does anyone know any routines that are used for buying temperature, or even any explanation that will help me make my own routines for it.
cheers
Malibu
#2 03-07-2006, 06:33 AM
acqyr - Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibu
Guys,
im sure we all read about pumping buying temperature in style's book "the game", but im still a bit fuzzy on it.
Does anyone know any routines that are used for buying temperature, or even any explanation that will help me make my own routines for it.
cheers
Malibu
TD's buying temp article:
"As EACH Buying Temperature increase, the chick will usually SHIT TEST you, as a way of TRYING to throw herself OUT OF STATE. She shit tests by doing things that if you react too seriously, she'll get upset and therefore be thrown out of state. By passing shit tests, Buying Temperature is AMPLIFIED. This is like when Eddy (whitedragonPUA) posted about his HBRugby Lay report She kept punching him all night. After he laid her, he asked her why. She said "I just thought you'd go away"... She knew she was hitting buying temperature, and didn't want to succumb to it so she shit tested by hitting him and hoped that he would back off and she would come down. Think back to when you tried to kiss a girl on a date, and she said "NOT YET". She doesn't mean NO. She ONLY means "I'm not at buying temperature yet.. Give me more gaming". Likewise, you try to venue change a girl, and she says "No. But I still want to talk to you". You keep gaming her, and a few minutes later you change venues. This was because you tried to ESCALATE PRIOR TO ATTAINING THE RIGHT LEVEL OF BUYING TEMPERATURE.
There are many examples of chicks trying to throw themselves out of state when hitting buying temperature, but then by passing shit tests it is actually amplified: Chick feels herself getting horny. HB: "You're a player". PUA: "Yeah.. so what is it that turns you on so much about players anyway" (Response works firstly because you didn't disagree, so she can't get mad for you lying to her and break her own state, and secondly because you say something COCKY, which hits her emotionally, and therefore raises buying temperature)
EG: Chick says "we shouldn't be doing this"... PUA responds "yeah, we shouldn't be doing this" but KEEPS going.
In both cases, the chick feels her buying temperature increasing unusually rapidly (because of the PUA skillset), and tries to stop what's happening. "
Essentially, it is doing everything right-passing shit tests, running troutines, being alpha-EVERYTHING she is NOT used to from most guys...you can definitely tell when you say or do something that spikes it-she leans in more, she touches you more, etc...then that BT is spiking
__________________
"Love me or hate me — it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran, a champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons."
#3 03-09-2006, 12:50 PM
Onix - Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 367
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i have a question about "Buying Temp"
Why is it a girl wants to throw her self out of state exactly?
I kind of think its becuase its her ASD kicking in and so she will try to slow down the process but when you respond with an e/g given by TD YOU apm up the BT and then SHE has an excuse to stay in that state and can put the reaons for what is happening on to the PUA and so everything is socially acceptable
Am i right or wrong here?
#4 03-19-2006, 05:57 AM
Cedar -
TAF Hall Of Fame
Lounge Member Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Age: 36
Posts: 2,622
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Buying Temperature is a TD concept involving how sexually receptive the woman's emotional state is. The higher the BT, the more likely she'll sleep with you IN THAT MOMENT.
You can pump Buying Temperature with ANY attraction technique. Sleight of Hand and mini cold reads pack more bang for the buck. But everything works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onix
Why is it a girl wants to throw her self out of state exactly?
Her logical mind is attempting to derail her sexual receptiveness as part of LMR. ie, its protecting her sexual organs from being taken advantage of by continually shit testing whomever is responsible for raising her buying temperature.
Hope that made sense. It's not essential to understand the BT model to succeed at MM, btw. This is a Tyler Durden concept. Not a Mystery concept.
__________________
Assuming you're not a kidney harvester, we can chat in the car. - Cedar
#5 03-19-2006, 03:57 PM
Malibu - Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 29
Posts: 2,416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedar
Buying Temperature is a TD concept involving how sexually receptive the woman's emotional state is. The higher the BT, the more likely she'll sleep with you IN THAT MOMENT.
You can pump Buying Temperature with ANY attraction technique. Sleight of Hand and mini cold reads pack more bang for the buck. But everything works.
Her logical mind is attempting to derail her sexual receptiveness as part of LMR. ie, its protecting her sexual organs from being taken advantage of by continually shit testing whomever is responsible for raising her buying temperature.
Hope that made sense. It's not essential to understand the BT model to succeed at MM, btw. This is a Tyler Durden concept. Not a Mystery concept.
This is the answer i was after...thanks once again Cedar.
Malibu
#6 04-05-2006, 07:43 AM
Jawsome - Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 32
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This is the stuff I love right here.
Buying Temperature Spikes (TD v Juggler)
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Everyone always argues over whats better Juggler Method or MM, in act I just saw a post about it. I want to discuss Tyler Durdan's Temperature spike strategy and Juggler's.
Durden says in his Playing Hard to Get post:
Quote:
These buying temperature spikes are the right time to start doing subtle takeaways. That is, not the kind of takeaway where you walk off into another set. Rather, you just break eyecontact with her, and face away a bit. You *exactly* what the girls do to you, when you're gaming them in a club, and they get distracted because a peice of your material is not strong enough. You turn to your friends or the bar or the dancefloor, and you make it look like you're about to leave.
*But*, girls are very much accostomed to getting what they want. So unlike
most guys who will give up, their instant reaction is to go "HEY HEY HEY, keep talking.. What were you saying??? What???"
Juggler claims in summary of Juggler Method that:
Quote:
The method is not to worry so much about getting deep but to get wide rapport (a feeling like you can talk about anything). Again the key is including and amplifying a girl's response, no matter the response.
...
Make an SOI. At all her high points (laughing, etc). This rewards her for trying and sarging you back.
So basically Tyler Durden's approach is too do a IOD on spikes and Juggler's is to SOI in order to expand and increase the connection.
Now ive messed around with both these approaches in the field, but it's hard to say "this way works because it gets better responses." Ive found that jugglers approach sends you into comfort more quickly and is usually elicites a better immidiate response. And while I sometimes I get negative responses from TD's approach, many times the girl does game you and re-engage as TD claims. Maybe I havn't calibrated enough to get positive responses all the time, but at the same time, I agree with TD when he says it sets the right frame by making you the prize (even when the immidiate response is less than great).
Currently I try to start out by mixing them up and then move towards TD approach if the sarge is going well. Then back towards Juggler's as I get into strong comfort and finally seduction (because at first I want to reach the social hook point and later I want her to think she is winning my attention). Also (and this should be intuitive, although I have field tested), Juggler's approach is better for 8s and 7s and Tyler's better for 10's. This would make sense considering that you're already displaying higher value than 8's and 7's so there is no need to make them chase you, or to risk them thinking your "out of their league."
The specific sarge that brought this up for me was an HB9.5 who I gamed (very well) and got into middle comfort but I couldn't close. I wanted to move into a kiss close, but I could tell it wasn't quite there. She was giving out IOI's hardcore but also she kept shit testing me over and over, despite that I kept passing them. (ie she would dance with another dude she knew to make me jealous and I would smile and walk away and she would follow me). I couldn't understand what was going on until I read Durden's post and realized it seemed to her that I was gaming her, she was in the mode where she was being persued and even though she was attracted she couldn't accept that I was doing it too her. What I realized is I almost never used the TD approach, and during this sarge I only used the Juggler approach. It usually works for me, but with certain girls you have to make them chase you. This is especially true when you lack social proof. Doing IOD's like TD social proofs you to an extend. It shows her you don't care AT ALL. Way more than C/F does. You don't need this if you have enough social proof, but if its lacking it is much more important (depending on the girl). In fact I would say that it is all the social proof that you really ever need (except when it is required to open) because by chasing you she has already decided that you are high enough value to fuck.In summation, TD's approach is a risk (which we tend to shy away from in "solid game"), but it also has the advantages of 1. Making her chase you (the best possible frame). 2. Giving you any needed social proof. The Juggler approach 1. Keeps the risk low (she isn't going to lose any connection with you or get pissed at your lack of interest) 2. Allows you to move directly into more material, building more attraction or comfort.
If anyone else has thoughts, I welcome your input. Or respond even if you have a different idea of went wrong in my original sarge. And no I should not have just plowed ahead for the kiss close, I've done this enough to know when something's missing. Plus this girl was part of a closed environment.
#2 05-23-2007, 04:52 PM
ware_ru - Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,237
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I only skimmed the post but I think you're misunderstanding:
Quote:
So basically Tyler Durden's approach is too do a IOD on spikes and Juggler's is to SOI in order to expand and increase the connection.
In TD's post, the timed fractionation on buying temperature spikes are meant for, when YOU do some funny shit, and SHE is laughing, you do a mini takeaway so you dont' seem reaction seeking, and to subtly demonstrate non-neediness and get her to chase.
Juggler says to SOI on HER high points - when SHE does something great, not when YOU are making her laugh. When SHE tells a funny joke, or a good story, or osmething like that, you SOI her. This is just like qualification in the M3 model.
So you are perceiving some sort of difference between the TD and Juggler pieces when in fact they can be used in conjunction.
Warnings: 4 |
#3 05-23-2007, 06:45 PM
Sinn - Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 516
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The answer is... they are both right.
You always want to test for compliance and investment on high points ala everyone's favorite red headed PU guru.
And you also want to reward her when she gives that compliance ala everyone's favorite Michiganite.
So the right way to do it is when you sense that you have reached a high enough level of attraction, interest, or buying temp, you should pause and look away to see if she is going to re-initiate the conversation. Then when she does, you reward her by going into qualification.
Clear...
Sinn- Everyone's favorite funny haired master of all styles of PU.
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stealing horny chicks
by Tyler Durden
FOLLOW THE SHINY THING GIRLS.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW THE SHINY THING.. ITS GOING OVER HERE..
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=6&mn=1072259405121074
Here's how it goes down:
The girl hits full buying temperature. Maybe you did it. Maybe another natural player did it. Maybe her boyfriend pissed her off and de-validated her. Maybe she's on vacation, and she decides she wants it. Whatever the way, she's decided she wants sex TONIGHT, and somebody is going to get it.
You see this in Leicester Square in London England. The girls get hit on all night. The guys hitting on them are getting blown out left and right. But yet, at the same time, their buying temperature is escalating and escalating.
And as we all know, buying temperature is TRANSFERABLE. You can literally walk up to a girl who is being picked up by a player, blow him out, and pull the girl and hook up with her within 45 minutes. I've done it in front of audiences, while they sit there jaw dropped. It appears that I've done something inconceivable, when in fact what I've done it stupidly easy, just as long as you have a bit of balls.
In nighttime social environments, pickup is all about FOLLOW THE SHINY THING GIRLS.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW THE SHINY THING.. ITS GOING OVER HERE.. :)
That's a metaphor I first got from Toecutter I think, and its funny as hell because its true. In clubs, girls are like little kittens in a prairie, jumping from one stimulus to the next. Chase the butterfly little kitten.. chase it.. chase it.. no wait, a leaf.. chase it.. no wait!, a bird... chaaaaase it....
Girls in clubs, its the same shit. Dance.... Dance.... Drink.. Drink.... No wait! Lights! Music!!! Guys hitting on us... We're listening to them... They're fun.... No wait! They're players... Runnn awaaaaaay!!!! Wait, its my BEST FRIEND... I LOVE HER... HUG MY BEST FRIEND!!! GRIND HER!!!!
God, how do I deal with this shit on a nightly basis? It's like they're on crack. Do you guys see this shit? They see their friends and they run up and scream and hug eachother?
At clubs, most girls look like mindless stimulation seeking zombies. When I run workshops, I call this "the girl is about to pop". What that means is that you'll be running the set, but one of them can't quite hear you or isn't fully interested. And you see her eyes wandering, and she's looking around the club. It's like "This isn't stimulating enough.. Zombie needs more stimulation.. Seek stimulation.. Find it.. Maintain buying temperature.. Zombie LIKES buying temperature... dancing.. .dancing is buying temperature.... Zombie likes dancing... Let's go dance.. Zombie needs zombie friends to come with zombie, so zombie is safe..."
GUYS.... - LET'S - GO - DANCE!!!
And POOF, your set is GONE. Your target girl could have LOVED you, but the second her friends say "Let's go dance", it is fucking OVER. I'll see one of the girls looking around, seeking out other stimulation, and I'll blurt out to my wing "dude, that one's about to pop", and then its "Hey! Show's over here!", to the chick (like from my "How to take the fuck over a set" post I wrote a few weeks ago).
Anyway, getting back to the topic of tug of war, this is the shit I see all the time. The girl hits buying temperature, and now its whoever has the biggest shiny thing that will fuck her that night.
I'll have girls telling me they love me and asking where I'm going after the club closes, and then some other dude will move in, and she'll ignore me and act like I don't exist. Literally, she'll just cut me out of her reality. Then I'll go in and blow the guy out, and he'll leave, and then the girl will be my best friend again.
Bros, this is the harsh world of pickup. It's a cold cruel world... :)
This shit reminds me of rams butting heads on the mating ground. It's fucking crazy some of the shit I've seen and done.
In Las Vegas, I took this girl away from a guy who'd been gaming her all night. I was macking out with her and she's all over me. She says she wants to go home with me and that the guy she's with is a chump (even though she is clearly into him, but she just likes me more now, since I opened her even though the guy was right there).
We go to leave the casino, and her friend wants to back in for one last second and say bye to the guys. The guy I took her from grabs her back chats her for a few minutes, and next thing you know he walks her around the casino for the next 45 minutes while I sit there waiting like a puppydog.. FUCK, so CLOSE.. Like I had them at the cab stand, and now I'm back in here by myself??? My girl comes back and says she can't go home with me anymore, while I see the guy smiling that he's got her now.
I go off to the side, over to the friend and say that I'm gay, and that I want my girl (her best friend) to be my new best friend and to take her shopping tommorow morning. "Can I stay over?" She believes it, and cockblocks the guy who was about to pull the girl that we were fighting over, and we all go home together. The girl hates me, but her buying temperature is up and she needs sex. Oh yeah, did I mention that she was engaged? Anyway, she's fucking hot as hell, I'm there, she's there, and boom, its a done deal.
This was hard core tug of war. The same thing I did in Montreal, when I gamed up this set until they're ready to go home with me and my wing (while the students watch this go down), but then I have to leave to continue the workshop because its too early in the night, so I leave. Meanwhile some natural french player guys move in and start making out with these girls within about 3 minutes! Why? Because the girls buying temperature is up, and these guys can sense it and they exploit it.
Now these girls want to leave with these 2 french player dudes. So I go in with Stephane (of Cliff's List fame), and I make best friends with the two girls and tell them that I love their friend because I love them, and that I want to be best friends with them and that I we'll all be happy together, blah blah.. The girls cockblock the player guys and tell their friends all to go back to my house (incidentally its Cliff's house from Cliff's List, who I'm staying with). Our targets keep trying to go back with the French player guys, but I just cockblock the shit out of them by continually whispering into the obstacles ears that I need help from them. In this case there was a fuckup which I talked about in another post. Either way, the French guys were jaw-dropped when we waved, winked, and laughed at them, as we took away their girls.
I've done this SO MANY times. I'll see a girl who's ready to be pulled, and I just go befriend the obstacles. The obstacles know that their friend is going to sleep with SOMEBODY, so they do what it takes to make sure that somebody is me.
This is hardcore tug of war. You can see it outside clubs at closing times. Accounts are being worked out. Guys are chatting the girls they grinded with all night, trying to get them to "go to the afterbar" or "go eat" with them.
That's how the pull always goes down. It's first to go eat or party more or do drugs or drink at a house or hotel, and one thing leads to another. JLaix uses "We're going to Club Jeffy". Same type of shit.
I've also lost alot of tug of war battles in my day. Of course this is because I'll go into the battle even in spite of knowing that my odds are poor. I do it just for the education.
The other night in Kingston I had this girl ready to leave with me. I also had a date that night with a hotter girl, and ditched this girl at around 11pm. Twentysix was visiting me in Kingston, and we drove over to the girls house, but I realized that I'd forgotten the address. FUCK. So I go back to the club. Surprise, surprise....... The girl is grinding and making out with some new guy, about to go home with him. Of course, its because I upped her buying temperature FOR the guy. FACK!!!
So I get the friends of the girl to drag her off of him for me. Now she's all up on me. She's mine. But I leave for the bathroom for a minute, and I come back and watch the dude who was grinding with her pull her home and fuck her (I found out the next day, because I befriended the friends and called them).
Likewise, I was in Whistler Blackcomb, in British Columbia last weekend. For guys who don't know what that is, its one of the top ski resorts in the world. Fucking AMAZING place to go. Totally amazing experience. So we ski all day, and go clubbing at night. Twentysix and I had gamed up this 2set the night previous, and had a day2 planned with them at one of the bars on the resort. We show up 2 hours late, and these 2 player guys have moved in on our girls. I underestimate them, because our girls run up to us. I figure they're some lameasses. They weren't good looking or big or anything. I say to my girls "Let's get out of here", and they're ready to leave. Out of nowhere, the player guy walks in and says "Let's go do kareoke". I laugh at him internally, because I think he's AFC. But then I notice something. It's subtle, but its clearly there. He's not leaning in. He's not looking needy. He's directing her what to do. He's alpha.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK - He's a player and I misread the play.
Despite being about to leave with us, I watch this guy walk in and outalpha me (I sat there indifferent because I couldn't CONCEIVE that this guy could be a player), and take my girls from me. We all go to the next club together, and he has her and I'm looking lame for following along. Twentysix's girl likes him though, and is deciding between this guys' friend and Twentysix. Twentysix's competition isn't too bad, so he blows him out. But the girl tells me "HB decided yesterday after meeting you guys that she was going to get laid tonight. And you guys just came too late."
Twentysix runs the typical routine that we run when this happens, where one girl is ON but the other girl isn't. He tells his girl that if her friend isn't going to make it fun for me that he'll just leave. His girl begs her friend to hook up with me, but the player guy has me by the balls. I actually learned a SHITLOAD from watching this guy work, which I've since encorporated into my game to great effect. So Twentysix games up some other girl who he NEARLY pulls (a super cute blondie, much hotter than his girl), and both girls go home and fuck these two new guys who blew me out.
FUCK FUCK FUCK... I go home alone that night. The same way that many guys have gone home alone because of me. OUCH, I know how it feels now... ahhahaa, its all a game anyway, so I there's winners and losers. I'll be a winner again, and I'm sure I'll lose alot of them too.
For me, when I see its GAME ON with the tug of war, I have key tool's at my disposal:
1) Unlike 99% of natural players, I know that the key to the target is her peergroup. I befriend the obstacles and bring them ALL home together. I literally TELL DIRECTLY to the obstacles to pull her friends off the competing players, because I like and want to date her friend so that way we can all be a happy family.
2) I'm willing to sit in set and just chat the obstacles, while the players up the target's buying temperature for me, and I wait for the perfect time to make my move.
3) Out-alpha tactics, posted in "Some AMOG tactics" post I did a while back.
4) Social proof and jealousy. Unlike most players, I can walk into adjacent sets and blow them up, right in front of the girl I want.
5) Tell the obstacles that I'm gay, and worried about the target, and that I want to be her new gay best friend and take her shopping, and I want to save her from that guy. Then the friends push the girl on me and leave her alone with me, and the target has no idea what I've told the friends. In cases where the target hear's that I told the friends that I was gay, I just say either that I was joking, and then makeout and hookup with the target, or I say they're wrong, or they never said it.. Whatever.
6) I throw up the BIGGER SHINY THING.. I'll do a magic trick (I rarely use them, but I'll use them and make the competing guy player be the guy I do the trick on).. I have this one where I snatch a coin out of the guys' hand, that's not really magic that I learned at an MM Workshop. It's basic, but it works because you OWN the guy in front of the girl. I also just plow them with stories or bring over other girls and introduce them, and then tell the pawn-girls I brought over to chat the guy, and then take my girl back.
Again, notice that I NEVER give up. If I see a girl with her buying temperature up, I LOVE the challenge of competing against other players. You see this in Leceister Square in London at the end of EVERY Friday and Saturday night. The girls are walking around totally in state, and the player guys are coming up to them one by one until one of them pulls them. Crazy shit.
Anyway, this is a fun thing that I like to do, and I know most other PUAsaren't doing this stuff.
I really encourage you guys to have no fear of approaching even 1guy/1girl two sets, and taking the girls. You'd be surprised how often the two barely know eachother. Also, if you EVER and I mean *EVER* see natural players gaming up girls, never be afraid to go in and open ONLY the girls.
How do you know if its natural players? Hahaha, well, I hate to say this, but 9 times out of 10, if the girls look like they're having a good time (ie: they're giggly or touching the guy alot), then its a pickup, NOT a boyfriend with his longterm girlfriend. Why? Because girls aren't having fun if they're with their LTR. They usually only have fun with players. haaa, sad but true.
So if you see girls all giddy, then its probably a pickup, and you can easily swoop in and play a little tug of war with the other PUAs.
It's fun, and I often make friends with the other natural PUAs who I'm competing against. In fact some of my friends I've met in the field are players whose girls I've taken home right from them, earned their respect, and now we hang out.
I have a ton more to say on this topic also, which maybe I'll post someday or in addition to this. Tug of war is something I do all the time, and I encourage you guys to give it a shot because its WAY easier than it looks. It looks tough, but if you just use the principles you learn from ASF, you'll find its in fact very easy. Just ignore the social situation, and PLOW THEM FUCK OUT OF THE GIRLS WITH ROUTINES right in front of the guys. Easy shit, and great for ONS.
Tyler Durden
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playing hard to get
by Tyler Durden
-Active Disinterest & Buying Temperature Spikes -Screening vs Chasing switch -Social hook point and sexual hook point -Female psychology (autopilot responses, socially conditioned buying temperature regulation, value responses, choice making fuck ra
PLAYING HARD TO GET - BEING A CHALLENGE - BEING THE PRIZE
I talked about posting some more advanced material for guys who are interested. Here is a first helping. If you're not interested in dense material, read something else.
This is one of the most important posts I've written in some time, and it will likely go misunderstood given that most guys will not have the field experience to appreciate it. It is the most important thread I've posted in six months.
For guys who can gain attraction very consistently, but still have trouble getting laid: read this post until you have it down.
A few things to keep in mind, I want to throw out here:
-Buying Temperature Spikes
-S/C Switch (Screening vs Chasing switch)
-Social hook point and sexual hook point
-Female psychology (autopilot responses, socially conditioned buying temperature regulation, value responses, choice making fuck rationalizations)
-Bodylanguage subcommunication of hard-to-getness (the idea of not saying you're hard to get, but communicating it with your bodylanguage)
***This post is directed towards girls who you ascertain are attracted to challenging guys. Not all girls are like this, but many hot girls are. Again, many aren't. For guys use or advocate other styles which don't make use of this sort of stuff, the reason that they are getting laid is that they using other means of getting laid. There is more than one style. This post is something that is useful for guys in my context, and if you're using a totally different style than me, then this stuff may be useless to you.
SOME ROUGH THOUGHTS ON FEMALE PSYCHOLOGY:
Many of the hottest girls are extremely responsive to hard to get guys. Anyone in field has experienced the scenario where he plays hard to get and having the girl chase, but as soon as he shows interest he is blown out. This can happen even as late as the bedroom. Like, you'll have a girl chasing you all night, isolate you back home, but because you make the first move, she locks up and the pickup is over.
There are several reasons behind this, and in any given situation the lockup may have been caused by one or all of the reasons.
Firstly, you have autopilot responses. Think to the last time that you walked down the street, and a vagrant asked you for change. Perhaps you said "no", and kept walking. You don't consider it a lie. It's just an autopilot response to a social situation. Girls are the same with the LJGD ("let's just go dance") or "let's go to the bathroom", when their buying temperature goes down and their logical social conditioning kicks in and says "This guy is trying to sleep with us. He may be attractive, but who cares, I'm not meeting a guy at a club. I'm leaving this situation to go dance, because that's why I came to the club in the first place."
Notice also, how in all of the times that you've told a vagrant "no" when you were asked for spare change, there were those few times when someone asked you for help, and you said "no" out of habit, when in fact as you walked off you might have thought to yourself "Shit, maybe that guys' car really did break down. He didn't look like a vagrant. I wonder if I was a dick to him?"
The same goes for girls. They'll screen guys out as an auto-pilot response, and later wonder if they made a mistake (but they don't care, because another guy will come along in two seconds anyway). Attraction and how alpha or how sexual you are is not a factor here. Even very attractive guys get screened out for no logical reason. This is purely an autopilot response that you have to recognize and dodge. That is why we use opening tactics - they open consistently.
Likewise, girls will leave a set as their buying temperature increases too fast, as an autopilot response. They think "I don't know this guy. This guy knows what he's doing, and probably does it to all the girls. I'm getting out of here." This is why we use fractionation tactics, so as to avoid her disengaging you. Note also, that typical C&F push/pull is NOT a fractionation tactic. C&F and the like is not indirect, even if you are flirting around that you are hard to get. Girls know that if you're taking the time to engage them, even in a C&F hard to get flirtish type way, that it is not the case that you are *legitimately* hard to get. This is in the same way that when a girl comes up to me and says that my shirt is stupid - I know that she wants me. There is no difference. C&F is simply a *competent* way of flirting, that says a million and one great things about you. It's still (arguably, depending on semantics) a direct approach in some ways. It's just a direct approach that girls like, because it still shows that you are willing to walk away - you're interested, but you can take it or leave it. So that said, you can see how "You're my new girlfriend.. No wait, you don't have x-whatever? We're broken up." is not a fractionation technique. It's highly competent flirting, but its not *actually* conveying that you don't want her in a way where she really believes it.
**If I had to pinpoint one reason why guys who come to this stuff have trouble getting results, its what is outlined in this post. Girls are used to sex going down in a certain way. Walking up to girls and overtly trying to pick them up goes against what they're used to. It's a violation of social norms. Girls will tolerate it as cute, and they'll be interested to see what you'll do. But they'll rarely sleep with you (unless they are at a certain point in their lives where they are open to the idea, which I'll post about below in terms of "fuck rationalizations" - and this does happen often, which accounts for alot of the success that we see with other styles of approaches). Guys go in trying to convince the girl, when they should be BAITING the girl into convincing THEM. As a result, most of the bold moves that guys who come to the scene attempt, wind up not yielding any results.
So back on female psychology then, why do girls like *actual* hard to get guys?
Girls naturally enjoy having their buying temperature pumped up high. So if they can get those emotions out of an interaction, without worrying that the guy will exploit her suggestable state and have sex with her, then she can just get all emotionally aroused around him, and enjoy it. Of course what happens from there is that she backwards rationalizes it, and then convinces herself that she legitimately wants the guy. From there, she decides that she's going to get the guy, and starts chasing him in a manner as unsophisticated and blatantly obvious as how a pissed drunk AFC would chase a girl that he wants at a party. She'll kino him, giggle and scream around him, compliment him, signal her friends to help her, and try to isolate him.
Notice, as this post goes on, that this last paragraph explains why just getting a girls' buying temperature up high is not good enough, and that she actually has to chase. It's because of the backwards rationalization process, and the sexual hook point that she crosses over as a result. The S/C switch (screen/chase) gets flipped.
There are also issues of validation at work. Notice that if you tell a girl "I hate you", she starts touching you immediately, and begs to know why. Notice that if you engage the whole set, but actively ignore the choice girl, she'll start trying to get you to talk to her. This is all validation. It's more validating for the often insecure hot girls, to sleep with a guy who will reinforce that she is beautiful.
Think about your last cute girlfriend. She was cute. She was great in bed. But sooner or later, you got used to it, and took it for granted. Your relationship started stagnating. Then you're out at a party one night, and all these guys are giving her attention. Her friends are there, and she's having a great time just doing her own thing. All of a sudden, she looks different. She seems different. You say to your friend, "You know man, I was just thinking how cool Kathy is. I really want to stick with her." Then she comes over, and sits with you. And its like "Wow, I actually have this girl with me. This is awesome".
Haa - she's no different than she was an hour ago when you were sick of her. But when you can tell that someone doesn't need you, they just SEEM different. There's something about it that's hard to articulate. But what it boils down to, is that all of a sudden, this person's attention has become a source of validation for you. And as a result, they seem more attractive. (BTW: I use the paragraph before this one as a killer routine in sets, except I take out the part about stagnation and focus more on how I know that I appreciate someone and the positive sides of it).
In addition to the validation issue, there are basic genetic/status explainations and accounts for why hard to get guys are appealing. Very basically, guys who are sexually pre-selected by other girls because of their genetics and/or social status will be hard to get, because they can't be bothered with chasing women. They simply walk around, and girls chase them. Chasing a girl is in some ways subcommunicating that you are not one of these guys. If you go to the high class venues in Los Angeles, the mere act of actively picking up is looked down on by the highly socially proofed guys. They'll say things like "That guy over there is trying to pull ass. Kick him out."
A counter argument is that an alphamale will see a girl that he wants, and will just go up and assume the sell. This can also work, if you genuinely come across that way, and if you have the followup to back it up congruently.
Generally though, this is uncommon. Natural PUAs generally just walk around, and girls give them AIs (approach invitations) or make it really easy for them by throwing themselves at them, in a way that most surrounding men just don't recognize (and women don't acknowledge, as this would be a breach of "Secret Society" to admit what's happening, and would break down their whole system of secretly being the CHOOSERS). Note, that the idea of the alphamale who does approaches in society is a SOCIAL MISCONCEPTION. This rarely happens. Generally, natural alphamales do not do cold approaches. I've travelled all over North America and Europe, and I rarely see it. I know exactly what to look for - and I *rarely* see them initiating cold approaches. It happens only in certain communities, like London and NYC. But this is very very uncommon, and even in these communities 99% of the naturals who get laid often are still not doing cold approaches.
The ideas that "men take all the risks in escalation" and "men do the approaching, women do the receiving", that the academic community of psychologists and zoologists have espoused is BAD DATA. It is literally a fallacy and blemish of the academic community. It is a pathetic and glaring example of the follies of academia's white ivory tower armchair theorism, from eggheads who couldn't put any of their theory into practice if you gave them 10 years of prepare it (this is a gripe that I have as a student of political and analytic philosophy, that I see transferred over into this field as well). What these social scientists don't see (AFCs that they are), while they're watching all of the interactions that they supposedly use as empirical data in their published studies (which influence social understandings and thus social conditioning), is that while the men are the ones approaching and escalating, it is the women who are throwing themselves at these clueless men, until they do something. So in that case, the woman has virtually ALREADY DECIDED that she wants the man, and from there she just doesn't admit it (secret society breach), but rather throws herself at the guy until he escalates. She even puts up silly shit tests like (this from a double lay that SB007 and I did on a 2set that we pulled) "Just because you're renting that hotel, doesn't mean we're going up with you."... and later on in the night .... "just because we came up here, doesn't mean we're sleeping with you.." And typical AFCs, will say "Wow, we really plowed through that resistance", when in fact these girls had chosen to sleep with SB007 and I LONG before we'd taken them back to the hotel that we rented right in front of them. We were the hard to get guys, and just let them play out their dramatic act of throwing themselves at us in subtle ways, while pretending that they we didn't know what was happening. And then we allowed them to structure the extraction while making it look like it was our idea and not their fault, and then afterwards they denied responsibility for what took place, while they still email us regularly and want to meet up again. These girls would claim that we chose them, when in fact they chose us - which few people realize is the way it almost always happens.
The idea that "girls choose" also stems from the male/female social dynamic in our society, and the practises and habits that spawn from it. Men are unconsciously giving sexual validation to attractive women all day long, in one way or another. It's either they're checking them out, asking them the time, trying to make small talk, or pivoting left instead of right as they walk out of a room - when it would be faster to pivot left but he can catch a glimpse of her by pivoting right. Girls are all too aware of this stuff. It's built into them. They also go to the club religiously, to relish the process of guys buying them drinks and checking them out, and then shooting them down. A quote over from literally the hottest girl on my campus two months ago after an off-night: "I'm so depressed. No guys approached me tonight. I would never get together with a guy from a club, but I can't believe that I didn't get approached."
So what winds up happening, is that girls get into a pattern of not seeking out sex. They tend to go in cycles, where rather than chasing sex, they simply decide to give it up at arbitrary times. "This is the day that I will give it up." So for example, a typical girl will have a "revenge" fuck, a "just broke up with my boyfriend rebound" fuck, a "I haven't gotten laid in exactly 6 months" fuck, a "I'm on vacation and there are no social consequences and I just want to have fun" fuck, a "I need to revalidate myself being snubbed to prove I'm beautiful" fuck, a "romantic tryst adventure" fuck, a "jump on the sword so my friend can have her guy" fuck, a "I haven't gone home with a guy before, and all my friends have and I want to try it" fuck, etc etc etc. Then of course there is the "I've been dating this guy 3 months, and he provides well and its time to give it up now" fuck, which is the one that we typically aren't concerned about on this chat forum.
The girl has had sex available to her continually, but she can't "give it up" at every opportunity that comes around, because she'd wind up sleeping with 15,000 different men by the time she was finished. So instead, she comes up with rationalizations of when and where to give it up.
Thus, it is the case that girls are in the habit of making the choice. The second that they see that the guy is trying to make the choice for them, the sequence is broken, and their auto-pilot response kicks in and they automatically go back to screening him (even if they like him), just as they had on every other day prior to this one. (Don't make the mistake of thinking that you still don't have to do the work in making up BS excuses so that it isn't the girls' fault, once the ball is rolling. That is a different story. It still has to be "not hard fault". What's being discussed here is a separate issue from that).
This is the fallacy that guys make when approaching. They think that they can choose the girl, because they've pumped her buying temperature and she's been receptive to it. In practice though, if the S/C Switch doesn't flip, she'll still just sit back and enjoy the emotions, without having to give up anything in return. That's when you get situations where the girl will hang with you alll night, but won't give up her #, or she'll give it but she'll flake, or she'll give insurmountable LMR even if you extract.
That's because the right SEQUENCE hasn't been initiated, to make her "Today is the day" switch flip (where she'll pick from one of the many fuck-rationalizations, in the heat of the moment). And that sequence is "Guy is attractive. I can't take it anymore, so today is the day. I choose guy. I throw myself at him in oblique ways that he can't directly prove is me actually doing it. He eventually notices my actions and picks me up. I do nothing to help it move along, but if he makes everything happen and alleviates me of responsibility then it happens. He takes the credit for picking me up." The sequence is NOT "Guy walks up and tries to attract me. I decide that I'm attracted. I let him fuck me."
For that reason, the guy may have switched every attraction switch in the book in terms of buying temperature, but unless she is the one making the choice, the S/C switch will not be flipped. She is attracted, but her thought process is STILL occupied with trying to find every reason possible not to let anything happen.
She must switch from the typical mode of perpetual screening, to chasing. Her THOUGHT PROCESS must be switched. She must believe that you are a guy who is a source of attraction (ie: buying temperature escalation), but that you are not intentionally doing it to her. This is the same reason that if you tell a girl that you study 'pickup', she will be offended. You are breaking the sequence that is protected via the Secret Society, so to speak. You are messing up their ability to make a "good" choice.
From there, she has switched into chase mode. She is no longer dwelling whatsoever on why she shouldn't do anything (as she would be perpetually, if she thought that you were trying to lay her). Now, she's focused only on how to make it happen with you. Her thought process has changed. The S/C Switch has been flipped. She's focused solely on making it happen (except that she's not admitting to herself that she's trying to "get laid" - nope - she's just trying to continue the interaction back to somewhere that it could happen, despite that she deep down knows that she IS trying to get laid, but won't actively admit it to herself).
So that said, how do you trip that switch early on? Let's look at some straight tactics.
*****
FLIPPING THE S/C SWITCH, VIA TIMED FRACTIONATION ON BUYING TEMPERATURE SPIKES:
What is a buying temperature spike? You've all seen it. It's when you do or say something to give the girl a quick shot of emotions. Like a C&F remark where she goes "Oh!" and swats you. Or you tell her that you know something that she wants to know bad, and she goes "OMG OMG OMG, tell me tell me tell me!" Or when you run a really tight story that has her dying laughing or excited or intrigued. Or if you do a DHV, like the coin snatch trick or Mystery's 3 and 7 routine, and she freaks out. Or a great joke. Or even just coming in strong with good bodylanguage and tonality, and sucking up the attention of everyone in the set, and her buying temperature shoots up (you see this when you go in with an opener, and the girls just jump to talk to you or answer your question). Whatever.
You see it on their face, and you see it in the way that they turn their bodylanguage towards you, and when they kino you. Her buying temperature has shot up. Usually, it hits in abrupt bursts. Little spikes on the graph. You know you can't *maintain* this level indefinetely, but you can hit that level in bursts.
These buying temperature spikes are the right time to start doing subtle takeaways. That is, not the kind of takeaway where you walk off into another set. Rather, you just break eyecontact with her, and face away a bit. You *exactly* what the girls do to you, when you're gaming them in a club, and they get distracted because a peice of your material is not strong enough. You turn to your friends or the bar or the dancefloor, and you make it look like you're about to leave.
*But*, girls are very much accostomed to getting what they want. So unlike most guys who will give up, their instant reaction is to go "HEY HEY HEY, keep talking.. What were you saying??? What???"
That is your first step in getting the girls chasing. You have conveyed that you might walk away at any point, and all of the aforementioned issues are now dealt with. You are an attractive guy, and you have very clearly (in such a subtle way) demonstrated that you are not trying to get her. IOW, the natural process of her becoming attracted to you and choosing you has begun.
This kind of timing takes time and practice to cultivate. It can also be learned right off the opener. Here are some examples:
OPENER CLASS: "BAIT OPENERS" - SPIKE BUYING TEMPERATURE, AND TAKEAWAY TO BAIT HER TO OPEN YOU
1- "I'm shy":
My friend Shannon walks up to a set. I walk up to her and she introduces me. I say "Hey, I'm shy" with a super cocky look on my face, and turn to Shannon and say "Let's go outside". Here I looked like a cocky cool and fun guy, who they were about to get a little bit of buying temperature entertainment from - gratuitous entertainment for their night. But I *spotted* that look on their face, so I automatically took it away. *But*, I left a hook that they could grab on to. I said "Hey, I'm shy", and then turned to Shannon as if I were about to leave. In fact, I wasn't, but knew that they'd force me to stay. From there, they scream "Why are you shy?! Why are you shy?! Don't go.. Why are you shy?!", and I roll back in and game them. You can also use "I hate you", "I hate you guys", or "I hate girls". These work amazingly well as followups, and work well when you're merging into a set with your wing. Again, the girls say "Why?? Whyyyy?!??"
2- Eyecodes and bluffing that you're entering the set, and flashing peacocky zipper:
I walk by some guys who are gaming a set poorly. I walk right up to the set, and do "let's go" girl eye code to the girls (I roll my eyes, like "These guys are tools"). I also make little eye movements down to where their hands are too eagerly touching the girls, and make eye movements at the beers that they bought for them, and smirk right after I see them. The girls know what's up - they can tell that I know the deal of how women are. I walk right up like I'm about to out-alpha the guys, but then shake my head a bit like "This is too lame for me to even bother with", and then back away while still maintaining eye contact with the girls. Here I am using my PRESENCE as something that will give them a quick buying temperature level spike, and then I am withdrawing. I then proceed to tug on the zipper of my very peacocky zipper covered (BAIT) vest, and look from her eyes down to my vest. I have provided the bait. The girls immediately go "Hey! That vest is awesome! Let me see! Let me see!", and blow off the guys and jump over to me.
3- Take over set with C&F comment and AMOG blaster:
I look over from my barstool, and plow in with booming tonality some C&F comments, and proceed to shoot a quick out-alpha routine on the AMOG. For anyone who read my FR last week, it was a coment about a girl saying that everyone thought she had fake breasts. I yelled over "That's great - they'll give you boyancy if we're ever lost at sea. You'll be the only one to survice". Both girls look at me, and are intrigued. Then the AMOG says "Hey, this is my girlfriend", and I reply with "Haa, cool.. You guys look so similar, I thought that you guys were brother and sister. If you guys have kids they'll look like (I do a funny impression)." I then make a comment to the guy that he owns this end of the bar, turn my barstool around, and takeaway. Again, I have come in with COOLER presence than everyone else. I added energy to the group, which spiked up the girls' buying temperature, and then noticing that I immediately took it away. The girls immediately re-open me.
4- Opinion opener:
This is something that I do all the time with Sickboy007. Like all the time. This is key to our game. We roll into set talking amongst ourselves. Like we are the coolest guys in the club, and not needy at all. We're having more fun in our own conversation than we could be talking to anyone else. (Note: We usually actually ARE, so this is congruent. We talk about cool shit while we're in the field, and joke around alot. This keeps our state up, and is much better than talking game in field and getting too analytical). Despite being both guys, because we are both cool we actually provide more social proof to eachother than a female pivot would. So right off the bat, we look like best friends who could care less if they'll talk to us or not, because we are cooler and more interesting than them. We tap one of the girls, and run the first line of the opinion opener. They're thinking "Wow, those cool looking guys we saw are actually coming over to talk to us". Then they give their answer, and I we immediately turn our bodylanguage away from facing them, and into eachother. Then we assimilate their answer into our conversation, and transition into joking around about other shit that the girls DON'T GET, but it sounds interesting. So the girls see that we basically just tooled them to add to our own fun, and they can see that our conversation is so fucking interesting that they want to join it very badly. After all, we weren't rude. We just didn't follow them like puppydogs, like most guys would. So notice that the hook has been laid. The girls will interrupt us, and say 'Why did you ask us that? What about David Bowie?? What?? What?? How old is your little sister??" They keep trying to get in, and win us into a conversation.
**Notice that in all these cases, I'm laying the bait on the hook, and then pulling it back. I don't actually walk away. I just make the initial body movements that I'm about to walk away, because of the way that I pivot my body. But I'm not actually walking away. In fact, I'm not going anywhere. I know that if I lay the hook right, they'll start trying to re-open ME. It's all in hitting it at the *exact* moment, and then turning as if you're about to walk away, but providing some bait that they can open you off of, so they don't have to think too hard (God forbid).
IMPORTANT:
In addition to setting the hard to get frame, there are other things being laid down here that will help your pickup as it goes along. When you come in with a straight opener, and then start talking, she will often go into "receptive mode". An example that I do in seminar to explain this, is I'll be talking for an hour, and then out of nowhere I'll point to a student and say "Hey man. Do me a favour. Say the coolest thing that you can think of right now. Just say any random cool thing. Whatever you want." *Never* has a student been able to do it. They just sit there gawking, and they can't think of a single thing to say. Likewise, nobody else in the room can either. That's because their brain has been in "receive" mode for the last hour. They've been sucking up all the info, and their mental process of calling things up isn't in gear. It's like doing your math homework. Your first problem takes you 10 minutes. Your second one, 5. Then every one after that takes 1 minute each. That's because your brain has engaged into "math mode". Likewise, if the girl is just listening and listening, she won't be able to qualify herself to you very easily, because she's too busy taking what you're saying all in. So what winds up happening (and many guys will recognize this phenomenon), is that a pause occurs in the conversation, and because the girl feels the emotion of discomfort that she can't think of a way to fill it, she immediately says "Cool. Anyway, I have to go dance now". And POW, even though she was digging you, she left because the emotion of not having anything to say sunk her buying temperature so quickly. Another reason, is because by talking so much, you're logically disengaging her so strongly, that the sudden cognitive shift from the emotional saturation of being gamed without having to contribute anything, to suddenly actually having to (God forbid) THINK about what to say, will slam gear shift her brain into logical thinking so fast, that its like slamming your car from 5th to first gear, while driving 100 down the freeway. So better, is to get BOTH her mind thinking of what to say, and buying temperature still escalating. This happens, because she's getting excited by the process of actually gaming you. You've baited her into selling herself on you. This is a basic persuasion tactic. Nothing more. Before she's even had a chance to decide whether or not she even wants you, you're already taking away the option. But of what she's seen of you, you spike her buying temperature, so she felt high attraction for the second that you were there. That way, when its time for her to pipe in, she can easily think of something to say, and the set will hold, AND she'll be more likely to be able to qualify herself to you.
And that said, they often WILL do things to qualify themselves to you. You can AMPLIFY this again, with some playful hard to get tactics.
This is a really fucking key peice. Pay close attention to it. Say for example, you went in with "I'm shy", and then pulled out. They'll say "Why are you shy? We're nice girls!" You can reply "Umm yeah.. You're OK.. Oh shit, you have a belly button ring. Don't show me that." Immediately, you'll see them jumping up and pulling your face down to look at their peircing. They'll say "Look at it! Loooook at it!!!!" Then you look at it, and like they've entranced you, you talk to them a bit more.
The same can be done after you exchange signs. They'll tell you that they're Libras, and you say "I can't talk to you anymore.. You're trouble". This is as if you're moderating your own buying temperature. You turn your back on them, and they'll grab your shoulder and say "NO!! You tell me your sign NOW!! Are you a Libra too?!?!"
Another one you'll see alot, is that you run the hook, and pull back. Typical girl tactics, they'll start touching you. So say that they touch your shoulder. You can act like it feels really good. You mumble "That actually feels really good - my shoulder is so sore. You have to stop doing that.. Stop.. Seriously.. That's a bad idea.." They'll do it more and more. "OK, you're getting me all emotional.. enough.."
Even without hook openers though (which I only use a small percentage of the time), I can still engage the chasing just further into the set. It doesn't require that you do it right off the opener like in the case of hook openers. Its convenient if you can do it early, but it isn't required at all. The only time limit is that the dynamic isn't set in stone that you're too giving and eager. So long as I avoid that scenario, I will only do it off the opener if I spot a buying temperature spike. Otherwise, I proceed as normal, until I see it.
I do the same on tonguedowns. I'll be kissing the girl, and then I'll pull back, and mumble "OK, stop.. We seriously have to stop." They'll say "Why?" and keep trying to push more. You say "I'm just getting so....." and then they'll pull you back in. Do this repeatedly. This is an extension to the Style kiss close, where he goes in with "I'm trying so hard not to kiss you right now".
Basically, the idea here is that you BAIT the girl, by giving her information on how to seduce you, but telling her not to do it.
The thing is though, that you have to be congruent with it. You actually use your bodylanguage at various points, to deliberately try to screw up your own pickup. Because girls are used to getting what they want, they'll re-initiate it HARD. This is NOT just a verbal thing. It's a bodylanguage thing. Girls respond to how you use your body. Try to speak using your body.
This is very similar to martial arts. It's like "parry, strike, dodge, parry, strike, dodge.. strike.. etc etc.." You're going "Hit up buying temperature, pull back.. Give her an idea of how to seduce you, pull back.. Give a bit.. Hit up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Hit up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Give her an idea.. Pull back.. etc etc"
From there, when I do extractions or get a phone number, I also make them work for it. Often, they'll be walking away and say they have to go. I'll say "OK" and just look at them blank. They'll immediately offer their # or to take mine. But that aside, I also use bait to make them go for it. I'll wait until they say something cool, and I'll act like a girl whose buying temperature just shot up. I'll look intrigued or excited and say "Wow. Geez, I have to take you to x-place". I'll pick something that I know they want bad. Something that they'll react to. Or I'll just use something ordinary, but I'll map out a scenario (using future adventures projection of us doing awesome stuff), and just go with that. They'll immediately offer up their number. Then I'll say "OK cool", and just change the subject. Just like how a girl does to guys. What's next is funny to watch. She'll start trying to naturally "slip in" that I should take her number. I'll keep saying "Yeah cool, I'll get it later". I keep doing this, until she's asked me to exchange numbers around 5-15 times over the next hour. Often they'll just ask me for my number out of concern that I won't call. When I finally acknowledge that I'll call is when she does something impressive. Then I'll say "WOW.. What was your number again? I'm definetely calling you." Moreover, girls will also try to extract me for food after the club closes. I'll say "Yeah awesome!" but then turn to my wing and keep talking to him. They keep pushing for it, and they'll run and grab their friend and try to make their friend convince me as well. Then I'll capitulate. I may not necessarily wait for them to initiate it. Many just won't. So instead, I'll wait for them to do something to impress me, and then I'll suggest it. If they're giving me a backrub, I may say "I'm hungry. I want to go to Denny's after this."
But I do the same in the other direction. I act just like a flakey stimulus seeking girl. If they bore me, I just walk off in distraction. If something interesting happens, I'll walk over to it to check it out. If a good song comes on, I may just get up and walk away. If they say something I don't like, I'll lean away and start looking at other girls. They have to keep tapping me on the shoulder and tell me to keep talking, in order for me to stay attentive.
So how do you seduce in a case where the act of seducing would be incongruent to everything you've built up. They play it up, and the girl tries to get them, but then they stupidly go against everything that they've been doing get them attracted all this time, and start trying to seduce them. This is incongruent. It kills attraction instantly. It relies on some fallacy that the girl likes you for your personality, when in fact she may, but it is not relevant to her *attraction* for you. You're switching gears too quickly, from 5th to 1st gear, in one foul swoop. It doesn't work. Attraction dies instantly. I've had girls who went completely cold, even after spending hours with me - all because I dropped the hard to get act, and started trying to escalate - without doing the right transition work (I will explain).
Instead, you have to play it smooth. This requires you to have strong verbal skills and calibration skills. The girl has been getting you comfortable being closer and closer to her the whole time, so its fine if you're right next to her, and even in kino. But you have to keep presenting challenges to her, and punishing and rewarding her with those challenges. She'll say something that I like, and I'll lean in like I'm about to kiss her. Then I won't. I'll slowly start moving back, until she says something else that I like. Then I move in closer than the first time. Then I move slowly back. Then she says something that I like, and I move right in to kiss her, and say "You're getting me all emotional", and pull back. Then I keep my face up to hers, and we talk face to face, with lips grazing eachother, and she says something I like and turn my face and stop talking, and then her talking will merge into triangular gazing and my lips will graze hers more and then we're making out. I may also say "I'm not going to" at different points, when she's obviously trying to move in to kiss me. If she says "Not going to what?", I won't answer. Rather, I'll just keep talking in the quiet face-to-face way that we've been doing.
Also - again, you can do things like "You're wearing Channel? Don't let me smell it.. Don't..." (she'll practically tackle you and put her neck up to your face to make you smell it). Then you can phase shift, but then snap your own state and move back. But as you're moving back, you say things to pump her buying temperature.
A GREAT thing to reward girls for is also dancing in front of you, or in between your legs. Although they'd never admit it (Secret Society Breach), dancing is a sexual exhibition. So if you can make her perceive that her dancing is what's getting your buying temperature up, she'll feel fully qualified. You kiss her, but you still don't keep trying. You just do it, and then sit there blank afterwards. She still has more to do.
Remember that this is like fucking with magnets. You're constantly backing off, but doing it SPECIFICALLY at a time when you know you've spiked buying temperature, so that she'll chase the stimulus.
That's the part that's so hard to convey in text. I show this to guys in workshop no problem, but I can't explain it that well. You have to actually take the time to mentally catalogue all of the little bodylanguage mannerisms that girls use, when they're getting distracted. And then you use these on them. And when you use them, you have to TIME it just at the right time - right when you hit on the right emotion. Always remember that there are so many fucking little ways that you reveal that you really want her. It only takes the slightest slip, and the jig is up. You have to be congruent.
Note that if you pull away at the wrong time when her buying temperature is down, she'll backwards rationalize that she is not experiencing attraction, and that she's not attracted to you anymore and that she's HAPPY that you're backing off. This will end it. So you have to have the verbal game and physical coquettishness to play this up properly.
Now as for seducing, this is like trapping an animal that you've baited closer and closer. If you do decide to pounce on her, do it ONLY once she has been baited too close, and she won't be able to get away. What I mean by that, is do it only once you have her lying with you snuggling, and then you can start playing your late game. If you do it prior to that, her physical horniness from contact with you won't have kicked in yet, and she'll have nothing to counter-act the state breaker that you dropping the hard to get act was playing up.
Notice, btw, that there is both a social hook point and a sexual hook point. Style has talked about the "hook point", as the point in the pickup in which the girls have stopped wondering "why is this guy talking to us", and have decided that they don't want you to leave. They'll do things to help the conversation continue, and your life becomes much easier. The same goes down the line, where there is a sexual hook point. You'll see this alot, especially with girls on vacation. This is where they've actually decided that they want to hook up with you. If you get this kind of girl, you'll notice zero LMR down the line. If you escalate, she will not resist IF she feels that she worked hard enough to get you. If not, then her desire to meet a challenge has not been fulfilled, and instead she thinks "Haa, he wants me for no reason like everyone else. What a chump."
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Anyway, in summary, a few points to have taken from this are:
1- There is a natural social process that occurs, which women don't want you to know about. They want you to think that you're the one who picked them up, so they don't have to "be responsible" for it. However, this fallacy has spawned guys in this community to develop pickup styles that violate social practices, in a way that isn't effective. (I violate social practices myself, but in a way that nobody spots). That's why when you talk about hitting on girls, the girls don't like it. But if you ask them "How *would* you like a guy to hit on you?" they have no realistic reply. It's because they secretly know that they pickup guys, but don't admit it publically or even to themselves.
2- Being able to attract a girl is often not enough. Girls find themselves wanting to sleep with various guys that they see all day long. What it takes to actually get laid, is to flip her S/C switch, so that she's decided "Today is the day. This guy is the guy". This is why there are many guys in the scene who can run a tight set, but still don't get laid. They have a certain part of their game down, but need to work more on flipping that fucking S/C Switch.
3- Being aware of buying temperature spikes, and knowing WHEN to pull away is key. If you just pull away at arbitrary times, you will not get a result.
4- Guys think that looks is the most important part of a pickup. In fact, its brains. You have to be smart as fucking hell to do this stuff. You have to think fast on your feet, and you have to calibrate. Most guys don't have a repertoire of material that will spike buying temperature, and fall into a trap of talking about situational stuff, which girls just interpret as you trying to get rapport with them, and makes you unchallenging.
5- There is a difference between a girl being attracted to you, and a girl wanting to fuck you. If you are TOO GIVING in set, then you run the risk of being the first guy, not the second. You have to be giving, but strategically.
6- To implant the idea of seducing you into the girls' mind, you have to have a repertoire of material to do so. That is BOTH material to entertain sets so you can pull a girl from her group or open a lone girl in a way that doesn't set off an autopilot response, but also you have to have material that gets her thinking that she wants you and gets her chasing you. This material is a combination of regular material that you use to spike buying temperature, and then pulling back, as well as recognizing anything that you can misinterpret as her trying to seduce you, and then pulling back from that as well, which raises the challenge and makes her do it more, and then you can play with it in the ways that were mentioned.
Tyler Durden
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