A great question posted recently on the Boston Lair:
A sticking point I need to work on is effectively setting up an MLTR. The key letter in this acronym being “L” for LONG. If you guys have no trouble finding women who will fuck you constantly for 6+ months while leaving you free to fuck other women, well I tip my hat to you. I meet girls who are cool with sleeping with me a few times, but eventually it comes down to that moment where they say, “I’m not comfortable having sex with you if you are sleeping with other women.” I am seeing a trend with the girls that I f-close where I will be able to stretch out the casual sex for a few weeks, maybe as long as a month, but I really would like to know how you guys are managing to get these *long* term FBs. I don’t mind admitting that I’ve only had one girl ever who was my FB for longer than a few months.
The shelf life for a FB is usually anywhere from a 1-3 months, depending on the girl. If you developed no emotional connection in this time, the escalation peaks and things just slowly come apart (or if she’s unstable, drama ensues). To break this barrier, you have to be willing to open yourself up and create an emotional bond with her.
How do you create this emotional bond? There’s a routine for it. It’s called loving her and caring about her. Genuinely. Did you get all of that? Good.
When this emotional bond emerges, what do 90% of couples do? They “go steady,” announce to the world they’re boyfriend/girlfriend on facebook, spend every other waking hour together, and nauseate all of their close friends with all the “cutesy, cuddly” shit they do in public. Oh, and of course, they are monogamous.
This can actually be a great — blissful even — for a varying amount of time, usually shorter than longer. In fact, I think a monogamous relationship is an important experience that everyone should have during their first serious relationship. The problem with it is this behavior encourages co-dependence. The two people re-adjust their entire lives around one another and live them according to some imaginary emotional parliament (the woman somehow always ends up with more votes).
The trick to an MLTR or open relationship is to generate that emotional connection while maintaining independence. This doesn’t mean you go traipsing around Boston fornicating with drunk sluts. And you definitely don’t ignore her for weeks on end, because goddamnit, you’re an alpha male and she needs to know it! No.
The distinction is that you make it clear to her that she is in your life because you choose her to be, because you want her to be, and ultimately because you love her. But at the same time, you are driven and have a purpose. You lead your own life and you are not going to rearrange it around her or for her. You have to be adamant about this. If deep down you want to be chasing other ass in your spare time, you can’t change that for her, because in a subtle way you’d supplicating to her wishes, undermining the masculine glory that she’s in love with in the first place.
You have to stand pat on this. Social conditioning will undoubtedly make her throw a fit. Many girls will even leave you, rationalizing that you never loved them in the first place. The truth is, in a love life of abundance, a strong and independent man chooses, on his own accord, when to love a woman rather than others. And on some level, the chicks who are the keepers recognize this and submit:
“I know you love chasing tarts around. I won’t stand in the way of that because I know how you feel about me.”
“I don’t care who you see, just keep seeing me.”
“Do whatever you want, but be safe, and don’t ever let it interfere with what we have between us.”
These are all things girls have eventually said to me. It comes after a period of emotional tension, and generally, you don’t have any problems from there on out. At least, I never have. In all cases, the girl I was with had no desire to sleep with another guy because I fulfilling her needs emotionally… and pounding the shit out of her pussy consistently.
Evolutionary psychology teaches us that when a woman cheats on a man, his biggest concern is, “Did you sleep with him?” When a man cheats on a woman, her biggest concern is, “Do you love her?” There ARE biological differences between our emotional needs and desires. Fill hers.
No emotional Connection + Independence = FB gets bored with you as she realizes you’re never coming around. The escalation ends with physicality and people just stop calling each other.
Emotional Connection + Co-Dependence = Monogamous relationship. Often wonderful in the short-term, but in the long-term, more commitment than most people are ready or able to handle. Guys slowly become emasculated as their woman yells at them to take out the garbage and that he doesn’t make enough money.
Emotional Connection + Independence = Open Relationship.
Oh, and it’s easier if she’s bisexual. More fun too!
Showing posts with label Tags: Fuck Buddy. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Tags: Fuck Buddy. Show all posts
Monday, June 14, 2010
Managing Expectations
Here’s a cross-post from Boston Lair in reply to a post asking about managing FB expectations. Original post is in italics, my response is in regular text:
Here are my own expectations: I’m not a fan of ONS. I like long-term involvements, but not necessarily exclusive ones. What I would like out of a relationship is someone that I see maybe once a week, but not not someone who monopolizes my time. In any event, I believe it’s premature to even DISCUSS exclusivity unltil you’ve been dating for 3 months with no red flags. And that has never happened in my life.
That’s a fine way to approach it. I’m with you. I divide my FB’s into “regulars” who I see 1-2 times a week and then “backups” who I basically fuck anytime I run into them or they call me to come over. My “regulars” are basically part-time girlfriends who I enjoy spending time with, care about, and often am even emotionally involved with. My “backups” are just a stockpile of warm vaginas for my perusal.
Entropy had a great post with his “gray area” routine. (Thx, Entropy, BTW). I only have two questions about it:
1. When is the best time to use it? (After sleeping together, I imagine, but right after? Do you bring it up, or do you save it for when she brings it up.
You bring it up ASAP, but not necessarily in the context of you and her. You just bring it up as a general belief you have about relationships at that time. If you don’t, the girl is just going to let things go and let things escalate until she thinks you’re a couple. You have to step in and say, “I like you, but this is going to be casual.” Before or after sex isn’t as important as the point when you know you both want to see each other regularly. It’s definitely post-attraction/post-comfort game. Sometimes this is on a day 2, sometimes this is on a day 5 after you’ve had sex a few times.
2. If you make sure you only see the girl once a week, & don’t call her all the fucking time, can you avoid having to verbally explain anything at all? If you don’t want her to assume you’re her BF, how about just not acting like her BF?
If you set expectations, you’ll never explain anything. As for acting like a boyfriend, it’s not that cut and dry. Think of it as being more of a “part-time boyfriend.” If you set expectations correctly, then you’ll never have to deal with being nagged by these girls. I’ve never been nagged by these girls about being their BF because they know if they pressure me, I’ll ditch them for the next girl. THEY KNOW THIS. Not because I say it explicitly, but because they’ve seen that I’m a high-value male who is in control of my emotions and my life. And the girls who still nagged me anyway? I ditched them for the next girl. I never had to tiptoe around the fact that I only spent 1-2 days with them because they EXPECTED it. The times I got in trouble were when I was new to FB’s and the girls expected to see me more often.
I typically take one night a week for each girl. On that night, I’m her de facto boyfriend. As long as I’m with her, she’s MY GIRL, and she knows that. We have dinner, watch a movie, hold hands, drink wine, go dancing, whatever… then we come home and fuck and cuddle and sleep. I wake up the next morning and go sarge other chicks until I see her again.
Managing expectations with an FB is a skill and it’ll take some trial and errors to develop. What surprised me the most was that managing her expectations were twice as easy as managing MY expectations. Girls are more in-tune with these things and can handle dynamic relationships better. You’ll be amazed at how quickly they’ll lower their expectations from you if you establish them strongly and clearly early on. But, the stumbling block that I see tons of guys in the community run into with FB’s is dealing with their own expectations and emotions. Guys find a great girl that they want to keep around and while going through all the trouble to generate an emotional response in the girl, they find an emotional response in themselves — and it usually scares the bejesus out of them. They either freak out and ditch a wonderful girl, or they freak out and become their boyfriend after a week. I had these same mindfucks early on. We’re taught to not have emotional responses. We’re cold automatons that are programmed to charm females out of their underwear left and right… right? Wrong, the joy of women is an emotional joy, so don’t be afraid of it. Our love for women enslaved us as AFC’s — becoming a PUA is mastering that love for women. Be more worried about handling it in yourself than in her, because when the time comes, if you stand your ground and own it, she’ll basically follow any lead you give her.
Here are my own expectations: I’m not a fan of ONS. I like long-term involvements, but not necessarily exclusive ones. What I would like out of a relationship is someone that I see maybe once a week, but not not someone who monopolizes my time. In any event, I believe it’s premature to even DISCUSS exclusivity unltil you’ve been dating for 3 months with no red flags. And that has never happened in my life.
That’s a fine way to approach it. I’m with you. I divide my FB’s into “regulars” who I see 1-2 times a week and then “backups” who I basically fuck anytime I run into them or they call me to come over. My “regulars” are basically part-time girlfriends who I enjoy spending time with, care about, and often am even emotionally involved with. My “backups” are just a stockpile of warm vaginas for my perusal.
Entropy had a great post with his “gray area” routine. (Thx, Entropy, BTW). I only have two questions about it:
1. When is the best time to use it? (After sleeping together, I imagine, but right after? Do you bring it up, or do you save it for when she brings it up.
You bring it up ASAP, but not necessarily in the context of you and her. You just bring it up as a general belief you have about relationships at that time. If you don’t, the girl is just going to let things go and let things escalate until she thinks you’re a couple. You have to step in and say, “I like you, but this is going to be casual.” Before or after sex isn’t as important as the point when you know you both want to see each other regularly. It’s definitely post-attraction/post-comfort game. Sometimes this is on a day 2, sometimes this is on a day 5 after you’ve had sex a few times.
2. If you make sure you only see the girl once a week, & don’t call her all the fucking time, can you avoid having to verbally explain anything at all? If you don’t want her to assume you’re her BF, how about just not acting like her BF?
If you set expectations, you’ll never explain anything. As for acting like a boyfriend, it’s not that cut and dry. Think of it as being more of a “part-time boyfriend.” If you set expectations correctly, then you’ll never have to deal with being nagged by these girls. I’ve never been nagged by these girls about being their BF because they know if they pressure me, I’ll ditch them for the next girl. THEY KNOW THIS. Not because I say it explicitly, but because they’ve seen that I’m a high-value male who is in control of my emotions and my life. And the girls who still nagged me anyway? I ditched them for the next girl. I never had to tiptoe around the fact that I only spent 1-2 days with them because they EXPECTED it. The times I got in trouble were when I was new to FB’s and the girls expected to see me more often.
I typically take one night a week for each girl. On that night, I’m her de facto boyfriend. As long as I’m with her, she’s MY GIRL, and she knows that. We have dinner, watch a movie, hold hands, drink wine, go dancing, whatever… then we come home and fuck and cuddle and sleep. I wake up the next morning and go sarge other chicks until I see her again.
Managing expectations with an FB is a skill and it’ll take some trial and errors to develop. What surprised me the most was that managing her expectations were twice as easy as managing MY expectations. Girls are more in-tune with these things and can handle dynamic relationships better. You’ll be amazed at how quickly they’ll lower their expectations from you if you establish them strongly and clearly early on. But, the stumbling block that I see tons of guys in the community run into with FB’s is dealing with their own expectations and emotions. Guys find a great girl that they want to keep around and while going through all the trouble to generate an emotional response in the girl, they find an emotional response in themselves — and it usually scares the bejesus out of them. They either freak out and ditch a wonderful girl, or they freak out and become their boyfriend after a week. I had these same mindfucks early on. We’re taught to not have emotional responses. We’re cold automatons that are programmed to charm females out of their underwear left and right… right? Wrong, the joy of women is an emotional joy, so don’t be afraid of it. Our love for women enslaved us as AFC’s — becoming a PUA is mastering that love for women. Be more worried about handling it in yourself than in her, because when the time comes, if you stand your ground and own it, she’ll basically follow any lead you give her.
Harem Management 101
Somebody recently linked this on the Boston boards and I COMPLETELY forgot that I wrote it. I saw it today and was like, “damn, this is awesome, when did I write this?” So anyway, here it is on the blog.
Alright, here’s what I would call Harem Management 101.
Really, this shit comes down more to how much free time you have and not being stupid than anything else.
As any guy who this post actually applies to knows, women are TIME CONSUMING. They love to sit around and talk and cuddle and do a bunch of nothing with you all day. Typically, if a girl comes over at 8PM one night, it’s pretty much a given that I’m not going to be productive for the rest of the night. Keep this in mind and adjust accordingly.
With that said, when we’re juggling multiple women, they fall into two categories: the FB and the MLTR. FB’s are of the pump-and-dump variety, more of booty calls. You don’t typically hang out with them a long time nor sleep over at their place or let them crash at yours. Sponteneity is more of the norm as calling her up at 10PM one night for a quickie isn’t out of line at all. As such, FB’s are easy on your schedule because they can fit in almost anywhere and you can go long stretches without seeing them (probably up to two to three weeks).
MLTR’s on the other hand are a once-a-week minimum. They usually stay over and vice-versa and you will often spend most of the day/night with her. They’re more time consuming and also weekend eligible (i.e., you should be willing to give them a Friday or Saturday).
For purely logistical reasons, I would not keep more than two MLTR’s at a time. At one point I had 3 MLTR’s and 3 FB’s, and I literally spent twice as much time in other beds as I did my own.
I’ll break down a little scale as far as time-consuming goes, MLTR = 1GF, FB = 0.5GF. So for instance, 2 MLTR’s and 2 FB’s would = 3GF’s.
1GF = Easily manageable. Far more nights free than not. Be careful of scarcity complex and getting too attached to the one girl.
2GF = Still manageable. 2 MLTR’s + 1 FB is probably my favorite rotation as you still have quality time with quality women, have chances to still go out every week, but will never go more than 2-3 days without getting laid.
3GF = This is where it begins to get time consuming. You’re now spending just about every other night with a girl. If you work a lot or have a lot of hobbies, this is probably the most women you can handle at once.
4GF = You really must hate being home and/or alone. No time to go out, always tired. Spending a night by yourself actually begins to look like a luxury.
5GF = This begins to test your sanity. If you still force yourself to go out on weekends, you no longer have ANY nights free. Literally almost every night is a “date” or spent with one girl or another. I got close to this once and I literally had NO FREE TIME. Ever. After a week I freaked out and dropped a couple girls.
You hear about guys like Zan or DavidX who have juggled up 7 or 9 GF’s at a time, but in both cases, the girls all not only know ABOUT each other but knew each other. Having dealt with multiple girlfriends, I don’t buy this at all — unless they’re calling their FB’s “girlfriends” (which some guys do). Simply the amount of time necessary to manage all of the relationships and the fact that you only have so much sex drive. I mean, my sex drive can barely keep up with ONE girlfriend, but NINE? You’d be spending four hours a day fucking and the another four fighting about which girlfriends you were fucking and which ones you weren’t. Your life would fall apart.
I think 4GF is the highest you could reasonably go without having the girls meet each other and start double booking them. I don’t have nearly as much experience with introducing FB’s and MLTR’s and having them hang out. The basic idea is that you tell each girl that you will not tolerate any jealousy or drama from any single girl, that they must at least be courteous to the other women in your life and then just hope the women get along well. Even then, you have to do a lot of maintenance and arbitrating. So the massive amounts of time consumption still exists.
Really, there’s no getting around the time factor. Guys get off bragging or day-dreaming about having like six women at once, but once you actually start dating 5-6 women at a time, the massive amounts of time needed to manage those relationships defeats ANY satisfaction anyway. I mean, sure it’s cool to fuck five different girls in one week, it’s always nice to say you’ve done it. But the reality is at the end of that week I would have killed to have two nights by myself.
Here are some other general guidelines:
1) Try to find a day of the week for each of your MLTR’s. Mondays-Thursdays are great. Check your schedule against hers and see what works. Chicks actually really like this if you can arrange this and tell them, “OK, every Monday is our night together.” Save the FB’s for bootie calls later on in the week when you’re drunk and horny on a Saturday.
2) Obviously, to avoid double-booking, you’re going to have to plan out each week a week in advance. Guideline number one makes this much easier, but a lot of times these girls will invite you to shit or you’ll have new day two’s and shit set up. When you only have 1-2 girls, making plans isn’t a big deal, but when you’re juggling 4-5, planning a week in advance is MANDATORY. Find out the girl’s schedule and make plans. It’s never a bad idea.
3) Managing everyone’s expectations: if a girl wants you to hang out with her next Wednesday, but Wednesday is booked, just tell her “sorry, I got plans, but I’m free Thursday.” If it’s something specific and personal to her (like she’s in a performance or her friend out of town is coming, etc.), call your Wednesday girl and reschedule telling her something ambiguous. NEVER underestimate the power of ambiguity. Saying, “Oh something came up, can we hang out Thursday instead?” will rarely get a second thought. If the girl does say, “Oh, what are you doing?” that should send up a flag that she’s becoming emotionally involved and wants to know why you’re rearranging your time with her. I like taking the route of being honest, except use “my friend’ vaguely to describe what’s going on. For instance, in this example if the girl asked me why I was rescheduling, I would say, “My friend has a performance Wednesday, and they asked me to go to it.” It’s true. But it’s sexually ambiguous.
4) Dropping girls from the rotation requires little more than not calling them. Trust me, if you have enough girls you’ll find yourself forgetting to call your lesser favorites anyway.
5) If any two are bisexual or bi-curious, consider introducing two of them. Double book a night. Tell each one about the other one beforehand and get them to look forward to meeting and then see what happens. In my experience, the best threesome potential happens with a MLTR and an FB combo. Two MLTR’s will get pissy and jealous of each other, and two FB’s, there’s just not enough investment in you.
Alright, here’s what I would call Harem Management 101.
Really, this shit comes down more to how much free time you have and not being stupid than anything else.
As any guy who this post actually applies to knows, women are TIME CONSUMING. They love to sit around and talk and cuddle and do a bunch of nothing with you all day. Typically, if a girl comes over at 8PM one night, it’s pretty much a given that I’m not going to be productive for the rest of the night. Keep this in mind and adjust accordingly.
With that said, when we’re juggling multiple women, they fall into two categories: the FB and the MLTR. FB’s are of the pump-and-dump variety, more of booty calls. You don’t typically hang out with them a long time nor sleep over at their place or let them crash at yours. Sponteneity is more of the norm as calling her up at 10PM one night for a quickie isn’t out of line at all. As such, FB’s are easy on your schedule because they can fit in almost anywhere and you can go long stretches without seeing them (probably up to two to three weeks).
MLTR’s on the other hand are a once-a-week minimum. They usually stay over and vice-versa and you will often spend most of the day/night with her. They’re more time consuming and also weekend eligible (i.e., you should be willing to give them a Friday or Saturday).
For purely logistical reasons, I would not keep more than two MLTR’s at a time. At one point I had 3 MLTR’s and 3 FB’s, and I literally spent twice as much time in other beds as I did my own.
I’ll break down a little scale as far as time-consuming goes, MLTR = 1GF, FB = 0.5GF. So for instance, 2 MLTR’s and 2 FB’s would = 3GF’s.
1GF = Easily manageable. Far more nights free than not. Be careful of scarcity complex and getting too attached to the one girl.
2GF = Still manageable. 2 MLTR’s + 1 FB is probably my favorite rotation as you still have quality time with quality women, have chances to still go out every week, but will never go more than 2-3 days without getting laid.
3GF = This is where it begins to get time consuming. You’re now spending just about every other night with a girl. If you work a lot or have a lot of hobbies, this is probably the most women you can handle at once.
4GF = You really must hate being home and/or alone. No time to go out, always tired. Spending a night by yourself actually begins to look like a luxury.
5GF = This begins to test your sanity. If you still force yourself to go out on weekends, you no longer have ANY nights free. Literally almost every night is a “date” or spent with one girl or another. I got close to this once and I literally had NO FREE TIME. Ever. After a week I freaked out and dropped a couple girls.
You hear about guys like Zan or DavidX who have juggled up 7 or 9 GF’s at a time, but in both cases, the girls all not only know ABOUT each other but knew each other. Having dealt with multiple girlfriends, I don’t buy this at all — unless they’re calling their FB’s “girlfriends” (which some guys do). Simply the amount of time necessary to manage all of the relationships and the fact that you only have so much sex drive. I mean, my sex drive can barely keep up with ONE girlfriend, but NINE? You’d be spending four hours a day fucking and the another four fighting about which girlfriends you were fucking and which ones you weren’t. Your life would fall apart.
I think 4GF is the highest you could reasonably go without having the girls meet each other and start double booking them. I don’t have nearly as much experience with introducing FB’s and MLTR’s and having them hang out. The basic idea is that you tell each girl that you will not tolerate any jealousy or drama from any single girl, that they must at least be courteous to the other women in your life and then just hope the women get along well. Even then, you have to do a lot of maintenance and arbitrating. So the massive amounts of time consumption still exists.
Really, there’s no getting around the time factor. Guys get off bragging or day-dreaming about having like six women at once, but once you actually start dating 5-6 women at a time, the massive amounts of time needed to manage those relationships defeats ANY satisfaction anyway. I mean, sure it’s cool to fuck five different girls in one week, it’s always nice to say you’ve done it. But the reality is at the end of that week I would have killed to have two nights by myself.
Here are some other general guidelines:
1) Try to find a day of the week for each of your MLTR’s. Mondays-Thursdays are great. Check your schedule against hers and see what works. Chicks actually really like this if you can arrange this and tell them, “OK, every Monday is our night together.” Save the FB’s for bootie calls later on in the week when you’re drunk and horny on a Saturday.
2) Obviously, to avoid double-booking, you’re going to have to plan out each week a week in advance. Guideline number one makes this much easier, but a lot of times these girls will invite you to shit or you’ll have new day two’s and shit set up. When you only have 1-2 girls, making plans isn’t a big deal, but when you’re juggling 4-5, planning a week in advance is MANDATORY. Find out the girl’s schedule and make plans. It’s never a bad idea.
3) Managing everyone’s expectations: if a girl wants you to hang out with her next Wednesday, but Wednesday is booked, just tell her “sorry, I got plans, but I’m free Thursday.” If it’s something specific and personal to her (like she’s in a performance or her friend out of town is coming, etc.), call your Wednesday girl and reschedule telling her something ambiguous. NEVER underestimate the power of ambiguity. Saying, “Oh something came up, can we hang out Thursday instead?” will rarely get a second thought. If the girl does say, “Oh, what are you doing?” that should send up a flag that she’s becoming emotionally involved and wants to know why you’re rearranging your time with her. I like taking the route of being honest, except use “my friend’ vaguely to describe what’s going on. For instance, in this example if the girl asked me why I was rescheduling, I would say, “My friend has a performance Wednesday, and they asked me to go to it.” It’s true. But it’s sexually ambiguous.
4) Dropping girls from the rotation requires little more than not calling them. Trust me, if you have enough girls you’ll find yourself forgetting to call your lesser favorites anyway.
5) If any two are bisexual or bi-curious, consider introducing two of them. Double book a night. Tell each one about the other one beforehand and get them to look forward to meeting and then see what happens. In my experience, the best threesome potential happens with a MLTR and an FB combo. Two MLTR’s will get pissy and jealous of each other, and two FB’s, there’s just not enough investment in you.
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