Note: This is an old LR from 2006. It was my first major LR in the community.
This is my first report, so a quick background on me and the situation: I’m going to be a fifth year college student, so house parties have been my bread and butter for years. In fact, they’re all I’m good at, but I’m really good at them. I consider the bulk of my game “natural” but only within these specific contexts. I got involved in the community to learn opening game (because my bar/club/day game is weak) and end game, how to manage FB’s/MLTR’s.
The situation: My current MLTR threw a party last night, HB8.5, she spoils the fuck out of me so we’ll call her HBSugarMama. She’s quite proud of her great body and she lives with strippers, so the party became themed (like so many cheesy college parties are) a “Stripper Party.” Basically an excuse for everyone to show up as slutty and as little clothed as possible. She went out and bought me some nice boxers with “Playboy” written all over them for the event — that was my costume, nothing else. She sported some leopard print underwear, six inch heels and an assload of make-up. Her stripper roommates well, dressed like strippers. She also went out and bought enough alcohol to kill every horse at the Kentucky Derby: 10 bottles of champagne, 3 handles of vodka, bottles of Tequila, Southern Comfort, Jack, you name it. She also shelled out for props like black lights, feather boas, handcuffs, candy thongs and bras, and fake money for people to give to each other. This girl knows how to throw a party.
She’s the first girl I’d ever consider a MLTR. In the past, I’d get with girls, bang them for a week or two, get freaked out about emotional stuff and ditch them (even if no one was attached). With this one I grew some balls and told her that even though we really like each other, I’m going to still pursue, hook up with, and even sleep with other girls. To my surprise, she was fine with that and even encouraged it, as long as she’s my favorite. Score. This is a new thing for me and has been going pretty well, but problems crop up now and then, which will come apparent at the end of this. Hopefully, somebody here more experienced with it can help out.
Anyway, on to the report:
I show up early to help HBSugarMama set up. She really went all out with this. The idea of 30-40 half naked college kids crammed in an apartment with $300 worth of alcohol cannot be topped; Bob Dole would ditch Viagra for a chance like this. I tell her this (well, not the Bob Dole part), and she says she wants to see me “tool with some tarts.” “Tarts” is her name for girls I hook up with or fuck but don’t care at all about. Basically, she’s telling me she wants to watch me run mad game and hook up with other girls in front of her — she gets turned on by this sometimes. Lucky me, eh? We pop the champagne, share the first glass and the first batch of people start showing up.
A girl that I work with shows up, HBWorkGirl. She’s HB6, great rack, OK body, OK face. She’s been raining IOI’s on me at work all summer, but I’m just not attracted. The exception to this of course, is when I get plastered (foreshadowing anyone?). She shows up in a… fuck, I don’t know what the hell it was. It was hot. She kind of looked like a dominatrix, all I know is her tits looked massive. She got bumped up to an HB7 for the night. Go HBWorkGirl. I comment on her magnanimous breast display.
Me: (pokes tit) “Good, someone brought the life preservers.”
Her: (feigning anger)
Me: “I always do say safety first.”
Her: (pretends for another few seconds and then breaks out laughing)
Me: “I like how you at least tried to be angry.”
Her: “Shut up!”
Me: “You love hearing about your rack and we both know it.”
Her: (silent embarrassment)
This gets the conversation going in a sexual direction. She drags me over to do shots of rum with her. After about 5 minutes and 3 shots, the subject of being horny came up:
Me: “I hate getting really horny at work. Especially since you can’t do anything about it.” (The insinuation here should be very plain. We work together. She wants me. By saying this, I put the thought of her fucking me at work into her head without ever saying it.)
Her: “Me too! It’s sad, I’ve thought about different places you could have sex there. Like that hallway in the back, or the stairwell, or just the bathroom.” (She’s getting way into it).
Me (casually and sarcastically): “Oh, well next time I’m horny I’ll just drag you into the bathroom with me.”
Her: “Oh my God, that’d be so hot!” (pauses and gets a little embarrassed at her enthusiasm) “Uh, let’s change the subject.”
I’m sure a lot of guys would phase shift or isolate, or Cocky Funny her some more, I don’t know. But I walked away. I have a habit of doing this and I didn’t realize why until I started reading some PUA stuff. I think Mystery or Juggler or someone said to always end a conversation at the peak. I don’t know states or NLP enough to know exactly why, but I always seem to walk away from girls right as the moment and attraction crescendos.
Anyway, I was distracted regardless. An HB9 had just walked in. Perfect legs and tiny tight ass with a real cute girl-next-door face. I’ll call her HBCandyAss. She came in with two good looking guys who followed her over to the champagne. I had been collecting door money for HBSugarMama, so I go over and ask the guys to pay. They each give their money and one pays for her. She doesn’t even pay attention and starts pouring herself a glass. I hold out my glass to her and she automatically goes to pour some for me. Right when it’s about to start pouring, I guess she realizes what she’s doing and stops, hands me the bottle and walks off. I gave her a loud sardonic “Thanks for nothing!” I stand there and pour for myself. The guys are following her like puppies, which leads me to believe that a) they’re AFC’s, and b) she’s asking for some negs.
Luckily enough, either she got a lot of foam or drinks champagne like a fat cousin at a wedding becuase she came back within a minute with a low glass. I still happened to be holding the bottle.
Me (with sincere smile): Do you need more champagne?
Her: Yes, please. (smiles)
I go to pour into her glass but stop at the last second, hand her the bottle and walk off. The two guys she’s with start cracking up.
I went off and talked to other people for about 15 minutes and then found her and the same two guys standing around pretty bored. I walk up and formally introduce myself to the guys. One’s kind of quiet and creepy, the other one’s pretty goofy. Definitely not threats at all. HBCandyAss is distracted picking her nose or text messaging or something. After a minute she jumps in:
Her: “You’re the champagne guy!”
Me: “For anyone else, yes.”
Her: (laughs) “I see you met these guys.” (Wants me to introduce myself)
Me: “Yeah” (I turn back towards one of them and continue the conversation)
She interrupts again:
Her: “I’m HBCandyAss” (She gives in).
Me: “I’m Entropy4″
Then to minimize her IOI she turns to one of her friends and flirtaciously introduces herself to him as a joke. The poor chump introduces himself right back and giggles. Poor AFC’s. I use it against her though.
Me: “So I see you met my friends here.” (She threw her AFC’s under the bus to DHV herself, so I call them “my friends” now)
Her: “Yeah, they seem really cool.” (Playing along because to insist they’re her friends would be to supplicate to them.)
Me: “They are. In fact, I think you’ll get along really well with them. I can see you becoming friends with them and inviting them out to parties with you. I have a way of knowing these things”
Her: “Actually, I just met him last week.” (Still being snotty and defying me)
Me: “Oh, I see, so he was just the nearest available male tonight. I see how it is.”
She’s stuck here. To agree with me is to insult her friend. To defend him would be supplicating to some chump just because I teased her. Ironically, the dude laughed and agreed with me. Self-loathing AFC’s! We fluffed for a bit. I directed my questions at all three of them, whereas she answered directly to me and asked me directly. This is just part of controlling group conversations. You always want the conversation in a group to revolve around you — not as in being about you, but you want to direct it, like a traffic cop. I directed it for awhile about what schools they went to, where they were from, blah, blah, blah. The AFC’s went wherever I lead them, and she would have to follow too.
Me: “Do you guys play ultimate frisbee?” (Probably about 1/2 the people there that night were on the frisbee team. Sidenote: Frisbee girls get really excited about meeting frisbee guys — like REALLY excited.)
Her (very excited): “Yes! Do you?”
Me: “No, definitely not.”
Her: “Why not?” (asked incredulously)
Me: “I guess I never owned a dog growing up.”
She laughs and goes into some convoluted story about her friend’s dog and playing frisbee with him. I pointed out that her response implied that she behaves like a dog or something like that — I don’t even know if I made sense. Either way, she laughed and began the IOI’s. My memory gets a little fuzzy here. I had moved on to Tequila Sunrises. At this point the two AFC’s are practically non-existant. I have her laughing pretty consistently. I finish the conversation again with a peak, “Don’t worry HBCandyAss, one day you too can be man’s best friend,” again implying her being a dog. She laughs, grabs my arm, and tells me how funny I am. Book her Columbo, take her downtown, this one’s ready. I walk off.
By this point, the party’s in full swing and I’m pretty buzzed. My game is completely reliant on social proofing like crazy. This is why I do so well at parties but not at bars or clubs. You don’t need a reason to start talking to people. You already have something in common with everyone there. People open themselves. I exploit this completely. I make sure to meet everyone right when they show up. I flirt with every girl under an HB8, and tease or ignore all the ones above. I joke with the guys. I get people drinks. I stick very close with my friends. I stop by my MLTR often to get quick kisses or a slap on the ass. Everyone at this party was practically naked, and many of them were athletes. I don’t have a great body, but I was getting my ass slapped, and my boxers were pulled down so many times that after the first couple times I didn’t even bother looking to see who did it.
HBWorkGirl comes back much drunker and much hornier and picks up our work sex conversation right where it left off. After buttering her up a bit with innuendo, she’s feeling me up and saying:
Her: “Tell me we’re going to fuck at work sometime.”
Me: “We’ll be sober.”
Her: “I don’t care, I just want you to fuck me at work.”
Me: “I could fuck you right now.”
She grabs my cock. I drag her into the bathroom and we start making out. She’s pretty much out of her clothes again which makes her HB6 again. I’m full on drunk at this point, so the parts ain’t working. She goes down and starts giving me head. People are knocking on the door and wondering what we’re doing. That’s kind of hot. Finally, I get some semblance of a hard on and she lies down on the floor and takes her thong off. I go for a few pumps but am feeling nothing. She starts to get upset that I don’t find her attractive enough. I tell her I’m really drunk. She makes me promise that we’ll do it sober. I probably lied and said I would.
Later on, HBSugarMama asked me what we were doing in there. I told her HBWorkGirl gave me head. She got annoyed, not because I got head in the bathroom from another girl, but because she said HBWorkGirl isn’t hot enough for me. HBWorkGirl later got really pissed that I told HBSugarMama she gave me head, because it made her “look like a slut.” I told her that going into a bathroom with me for 20 minutes makes you look like a slut. She didn’t really appreciate that comment. She continued to spiral into drunken oblivion throughout the night.
So anyway, I go socialize some more. I went out to meet my friend who showed up late. I introduced him to my stripper friends. I think he was a bit overwhelmed, he didn’t stay long as he was pretty intimidated (He’s rAFC). As I come back inside, I see HBCandyAss standing by herself. I walk up to her and just start dancing. She gets excited and starts dancing too and slips some fake dollar bills into my boxers. Huge IOI. I tell her that it’s hard to hear the music and we should go into the room where the speakers are (which happens to be sparsely populated). She says sure, but when we get there, she says we should start a dance floor with other people. I find the stripper friends, and some goofy asian dude dancing by himself and drag them over there. I don’t know if she wasn’t ready to be isolated yet, or if she was shit-testing me or what. But regardless I used the opportunity to demonstrate that I was the alpha male by herding people in the party where I wanted. We dance and HBCandyAss starts grinding her ass into me. We’re getting pretty dirty. She wants it. I take her to an isolated corner and making out commences. She’s a great kisser. But more people are coming into the room, and for some reason my MLTR giving me shit about HBWorkGirl is making me unsure about doing this out in the open. I really don’t need more drama in my life. We happen to be near a door into someone’s room. I open it and say we should go in there but she declines. I kiss her some more and walk off.
The next events are really a blur. For some reason I had switched from Tequila sunrises to straight Southern Comfort on the rocks. God knows why. There were pole dances involved. One of the strippers taught me how to clap my ass cheeks together and then demonstrated for me. This girl who I swore was a lesbian pulls my boxers down to my ankles and slaps my ass really hard. The goofy asian kid was actually really funny so I think I goofed around with him for a bit. I think I paid my MLTR some attention because I got the feeling she wasn’t as cool with me hooking up with every girl in the party as she said she was. I honestly couldn’t tell you.
Anyway, at some point I walked back into the party after people had started leaving and I saw HBCandyAss wearing a candy thong over her miniskirt. I walk up and say, “Someone needs to eat that.” She agrees. I kiss her some and then take her into the other room. This time she’s willing. I put her on the couch and eat some of the thong and then kiss her, sharing the candy as we kiss. Each time I went down for candy, I lifted her skirt a little more and got closer to her pussy and each time coming back up to share the candy with her. She was getting really turned on. After a few times I licked her pussy through her panties and came back up. Finally, the last couple times I pulled her panties aside and gave her clit a couple licks before I came back up. She was steaming at this point but logistics made anything more an impossibility. The door was open and we were in someone’s bedroom. I also knew dragging her into a bathroom wasn’t going to happen, she had more self-respect and restraint than that. We talked for a bit while we made out. She told me she was leaving town in a few days. I told her it was too bad because we could have a lot of fun together. She agreed. I told her we’d probably never see or hear from each other again. She agreed. (2008 Entropy says: “Boy, did I blow this one.”)
She had to go. Apparently she came with a third guy who I had seen (another good-looking AFC), as in she was technically his date. Even though I was hammered I put together in my head that an AFC asked this girl out, so she brought two other AFC’s with her and then with all three of them 20 feet away let me lap her pussy like a dog in a toilet bowl. I chuckled to myself. I love women.
In all of this debauchery I lost my glass of Southern Comfort. As I started to look for it, I realized that if I was so drunk that I couldn’t even find my drink, it may be a sign. I started to feel sick so I laid down on a couch in the main room with my eyes closed. Everything was spinning. I came to when I noticed HBWorkGirl laying on me. She babbled incoherently and then started crying for some reason. Whatever. Later, I heard HBCandyAss say, “Entropy4, are you OK?” I opened my eyes to her with her things ready to leave. I mumbled something about a long day and said, “I thought you left?” I don’t remember her response. She left.
Eventually my MLTR came around and made me get up. She was drunk and very annoyed now. When I hooked up with an ugly girl, she was mad because the girl was too ugly. Now that I hooked up with a girl as hot as her, the truth came out, she was mad that I didn’t pay her enough attention at her party. I can understand how that would seem like a slap in her face. But she knew I was going home and fucking her that night. She agreed, but she was still upset regardless. We went home somehow, I don’t even remember how. We had OK sex (the parts worked this time) as we both tried not to vomit on each other or die of alcohol poisoning. She ended up throwing up (no, not on me). Then she cooked me chicken fingers which were glorious.
I woke up today with the worst hangover I’ve had in years. As I walked home, some mexican in a run-down truck pulled over and said, “Hey dude, your shirt’s on wrong.” I looked at it and it was buttoned completely crooked. I just shook my head in defeat. The mexican laughed real loud and said, “Long night my man?” I painfully nodded as he laughed again and drove on.
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Rori Raye
Nov 7, 2008 15:16
Okay, I get it. It’s about pussy. So, if it’s all about pussy, how come it feels like YOU have all the power here?
And I hear the words, and I get how smart you are to see where everyone’s coming from, lightening fast judgment – and not one single emotion. You are speaking here as an emotionless automaton – self-medicating and looking for the self-medicating.
I read your fabulous post on polyamory and see how these last two years have changed you, and say bravo – and hope you’ll write more for men on how to make the transition you have. Sincerely, Rori Raye
Showing posts with label MLTR. Show all posts
Showing posts with label MLTR. Show all posts
Monday, June 14, 2010
Locking in an MLTR
A great question posted recently on the Boston Lair:
A sticking point I need to work on is effectively setting up an MLTR. The key letter in this acronym being “L” for LONG. If you guys have no trouble finding women who will fuck you constantly for 6+ months while leaving you free to fuck other women, well I tip my hat to you. I meet girls who are cool with sleeping with me a few times, but eventually it comes down to that moment where they say, “I’m not comfortable having sex with you if you are sleeping with other women.” I am seeing a trend with the girls that I f-close where I will be able to stretch out the casual sex for a few weeks, maybe as long as a month, but I really would like to know how you guys are managing to get these *long* term FBs. I don’t mind admitting that I’ve only had one girl ever who was my FB for longer than a few months.
The shelf life for a FB is usually anywhere from a 1-3 months, depending on the girl. If you developed no emotional connection in this time, the escalation peaks and things just slowly come apart (or if she’s unstable, drama ensues). To break this barrier, you have to be willing to open yourself up and create an emotional bond with her.
How do you create this emotional bond? There’s a routine for it. It’s called loving her and caring about her. Genuinely. Did you get all of that? Good.
When this emotional bond emerges, what do 90% of couples do? They “go steady,” announce to the world they’re boyfriend/girlfriend on facebook, spend every other waking hour together, and nauseate all of their close friends with all the “cutesy, cuddly” shit they do in public. Oh, and of course, they are monogamous.
This can actually be a great — blissful even — for a varying amount of time, usually shorter than longer. In fact, I think a monogamous relationship is an important experience that everyone should have during their first serious relationship. The problem with it is this behavior encourages co-dependence. The two people re-adjust their entire lives around one another and live them according to some imaginary emotional parliament (the woman somehow always ends up with more votes).
The trick to an MLTR or open relationship is to generate that emotional connection while maintaining independence. This doesn’t mean you go traipsing around Boston fornicating with drunk sluts. And you definitely don’t ignore her for weeks on end, because goddamnit, you’re an alpha male and she needs to know it! No.
The distinction is that you make it clear to her that she is in your life because you choose her to be, because you want her to be, and ultimately because you love her. But at the same time, you are driven and have a purpose. You lead your own life and you are not going to rearrange it around her or for her. You have to be adamant about this. If deep down you want to be chasing other ass in your spare time, you can’t change that for her, because in a subtle way you’d supplicating to her wishes, undermining the masculine glory that she’s in love with in the first place.
You have to stand pat on this. Social conditioning will undoubtedly make her throw a fit. Many girls will even leave you, rationalizing that you never loved them in the first place. The truth is, in a love life of abundance, a strong and independent man chooses, on his own accord, when to love a woman rather than others. And on some level, the chicks who are the keepers recognize this and submit:
“I know you love chasing tarts around. I won’t stand in the way of that because I know how you feel about me.”
“I don’t care who you see, just keep seeing me.”
“Do whatever you want, but be safe, and don’t ever let it interfere with what we have between us.”
These are all things girls have eventually said to me. It comes after a period of emotional tension, and generally, you don’t have any problems from there on out. At least, I never have. In all cases, the girl I was with had no desire to sleep with another guy because I fulfilling her needs emotionally… and pounding the shit out of her pussy consistently.
Evolutionary psychology teaches us that when a woman cheats on a man, his biggest concern is, “Did you sleep with him?” When a man cheats on a woman, her biggest concern is, “Do you love her?” There ARE biological differences between our emotional needs and desires. Fill hers.
No emotional Connection + Independence = FB gets bored with you as she realizes you’re never coming around. The escalation ends with physicality and people just stop calling each other.
Emotional Connection + Co-Dependence = Monogamous relationship. Often wonderful in the short-term, but in the long-term, more commitment than most people are ready or able to handle. Guys slowly become emasculated as their woman yells at them to take out the garbage and that he doesn’t make enough money.
Emotional Connection + Independence = Open Relationship.
Oh, and it’s easier if she’s bisexual. More fun too!
A sticking point I need to work on is effectively setting up an MLTR. The key letter in this acronym being “L” for LONG. If you guys have no trouble finding women who will fuck you constantly for 6+ months while leaving you free to fuck other women, well I tip my hat to you. I meet girls who are cool with sleeping with me a few times, but eventually it comes down to that moment where they say, “I’m not comfortable having sex with you if you are sleeping with other women.” I am seeing a trend with the girls that I f-close where I will be able to stretch out the casual sex for a few weeks, maybe as long as a month, but I really would like to know how you guys are managing to get these *long* term FBs. I don’t mind admitting that I’ve only had one girl ever who was my FB for longer than a few months.
The shelf life for a FB is usually anywhere from a 1-3 months, depending on the girl. If you developed no emotional connection in this time, the escalation peaks and things just slowly come apart (or if she’s unstable, drama ensues). To break this barrier, you have to be willing to open yourself up and create an emotional bond with her.
How do you create this emotional bond? There’s a routine for it. It’s called loving her and caring about her. Genuinely. Did you get all of that? Good.
When this emotional bond emerges, what do 90% of couples do? They “go steady,” announce to the world they’re boyfriend/girlfriend on facebook, spend every other waking hour together, and nauseate all of their close friends with all the “cutesy, cuddly” shit they do in public. Oh, and of course, they are monogamous.
This can actually be a great — blissful even — for a varying amount of time, usually shorter than longer. In fact, I think a monogamous relationship is an important experience that everyone should have during their first serious relationship. The problem with it is this behavior encourages co-dependence. The two people re-adjust their entire lives around one another and live them according to some imaginary emotional parliament (the woman somehow always ends up with more votes).
The trick to an MLTR or open relationship is to generate that emotional connection while maintaining independence. This doesn’t mean you go traipsing around Boston fornicating with drunk sluts. And you definitely don’t ignore her for weeks on end, because goddamnit, you’re an alpha male and she needs to know it! No.
The distinction is that you make it clear to her that she is in your life because you choose her to be, because you want her to be, and ultimately because you love her. But at the same time, you are driven and have a purpose. You lead your own life and you are not going to rearrange it around her or for her. You have to be adamant about this. If deep down you want to be chasing other ass in your spare time, you can’t change that for her, because in a subtle way you’d supplicating to her wishes, undermining the masculine glory that she’s in love with in the first place.
You have to stand pat on this. Social conditioning will undoubtedly make her throw a fit. Many girls will even leave you, rationalizing that you never loved them in the first place. The truth is, in a love life of abundance, a strong and independent man chooses, on his own accord, when to love a woman rather than others. And on some level, the chicks who are the keepers recognize this and submit:
“I know you love chasing tarts around. I won’t stand in the way of that because I know how you feel about me.”
“I don’t care who you see, just keep seeing me.”
“Do whatever you want, but be safe, and don’t ever let it interfere with what we have between us.”
These are all things girls have eventually said to me. It comes after a period of emotional tension, and generally, you don’t have any problems from there on out. At least, I never have. In all cases, the girl I was with had no desire to sleep with another guy because I fulfilling her needs emotionally… and pounding the shit out of her pussy consistently.
Evolutionary psychology teaches us that when a woman cheats on a man, his biggest concern is, “Did you sleep with him?” When a man cheats on a woman, her biggest concern is, “Do you love her?” There ARE biological differences between our emotional needs and desires. Fill hers.
No emotional Connection + Independence = FB gets bored with you as she realizes you’re never coming around. The escalation ends with physicality and people just stop calling each other.
Emotional Connection + Co-Dependence = Monogamous relationship. Often wonderful in the short-term, but in the long-term, more commitment than most people are ready or able to handle. Guys slowly become emasculated as their woman yells at them to take out the garbage and that he doesn’t make enough money.
Emotional Connection + Independence = Open Relationship.
Oh, and it’s easier if she’s bisexual. More fun too!
Managing Expectations
Here’s a cross-post from Boston Lair in reply to a post asking about managing FB expectations. Original post is in italics, my response is in regular text:
Here are my own expectations: I’m not a fan of ONS. I like long-term involvements, but not necessarily exclusive ones. What I would like out of a relationship is someone that I see maybe once a week, but not not someone who monopolizes my time. In any event, I believe it’s premature to even DISCUSS exclusivity unltil you’ve been dating for 3 months with no red flags. And that has never happened in my life.
That’s a fine way to approach it. I’m with you. I divide my FB’s into “regulars” who I see 1-2 times a week and then “backups” who I basically fuck anytime I run into them or they call me to come over. My “regulars” are basically part-time girlfriends who I enjoy spending time with, care about, and often am even emotionally involved with. My “backups” are just a stockpile of warm vaginas for my perusal.
Entropy had a great post with his “gray area” routine. (Thx, Entropy, BTW). I only have two questions about it:
1. When is the best time to use it? (After sleeping together, I imagine, but right after? Do you bring it up, or do you save it for when she brings it up.
You bring it up ASAP, but not necessarily in the context of you and her. You just bring it up as a general belief you have about relationships at that time. If you don’t, the girl is just going to let things go and let things escalate until she thinks you’re a couple. You have to step in and say, “I like you, but this is going to be casual.” Before or after sex isn’t as important as the point when you know you both want to see each other regularly. It’s definitely post-attraction/post-comfort game. Sometimes this is on a day 2, sometimes this is on a day 5 after you’ve had sex a few times.
2. If you make sure you only see the girl once a week, & don’t call her all the fucking time, can you avoid having to verbally explain anything at all? If you don’t want her to assume you’re her BF, how about just not acting like her BF?
If you set expectations, you’ll never explain anything. As for acting like a boyfriend, it’s not that cut and dry. Think of it as being more of a “part-time boyfriend.” If you set expectations correctly, then you’ll never have to deal with being nagged by these girls. I’ve never been nagged by these girls about being their BF because they know if they pressure me, I’ll ditch them for the next girl. THEY KNOW THIS. Not because I say it explicitly, but because they’ve seen that I’m a high-value male who is in control of my emotions and my life. And the girls who still nagged me anyway? I ditched them for the next girl. I never had to tiptoe around the fact that I only spent 1-2 days with them because they EXPECTED it. The times I got in trouble were when I was new to FB’s and the girls expected to see me more often.
I typically take one night a week for each girl. On that night, I’m her de facto boyfriend. As long as I’m with her, she’s MY GIRL, and she knows that. We have dinner, watch a movie, hold hands, drink wine, go dancing, whatever… then we come home and fuck and cuddle and sleep. I wake up the next morning and go sarge other chicks until I see her again.
Managing expectations with an FB is a skill and it’ll take some trial and errors to develop. What surprised me the most was that managing her expectations were twice as easy as managing MY expectations. Girls are more in-tune with these things and can handle dynamic relationships better. You’ll be amazed at how quickly they’ll lower their expectations from you if you establish them strongly and clearly early on. But, the stumbling block that I see tons of guys in the community run into with FB’s is dealing with their own expectations and emotions. Guys find a great girl that they want to keep around and while going through all the trouble to generate an emotional response in the girl, they find an emotional response in themselves — and it usually scares the bejesus out of them. They either freak out and ditch a wonderful girl, or they freak out and become their boyfriend after a week. I had these same mindfucks early on. We’re taught to not have emotional responses. We’re cold automatons that are programmed to charm females out of their underwear left and right… right? Wrong, the joy of women is an emotional joy, so don’t be afraid of it. Our love for women enslaved us as AFC’s — becoming a PUA is mastering that love for women. Be more worried about handling it in yourself than in her, because when the time comes, if you stand your ground and own it, she’ll basically follow any lead you give her.
Here are my own expectations: I’m not a fan of ONS. I like long-term involvements, but not necessarily exclusive ones. What I would like out of a relationship is someone that I see maybe once a week, but not not someone who monopolizes my time. In any event, I believe it’s premature to even DISCUSS exclusivity unltil you’ve been dating for 3 months with no red flags. And that has never happened in my life.
That’s a fine way to approach it. I’m with you. I divide my FB’s into “regulars” who I see 1-2 times a week and then “backups” who I basically fuck anytime I run into them or they call me to come over. My “regulars” are basically part-time girlfriends who I enjoy spending time with, care about, and often am even emotionally involved with. My “backups” are just a stockpile of warm vaginas for my perusal.
Entropy had a great post with his “gray area” routine. (Thx, Entropy, BTW). I only have two questions about it:
1. When is the best time to use it? (After sleeping together, I imagine, but right after? Do you bring it up, or do you save it for when she brings it up.
You bring it up ASAP, but not necessarily in the context of you and her. You just bring it up as a general belief you have about relationships at that time. If you don’t, the girl is just going to let things go and let things escalate until she thinks you’re a couple. You have to step in and say, “I like you, but this is going to be casual.” Before or after sex isn’t as important as the point when you know you both want to see each other regularly. It’s definitely post-attraction/post-comfort game. Sometimes this is on a day 2, sometimes this is on a day 5 after you’ve had sex a few times.
2. If you make sure you only see the girl once a week, & don’t call her all the fucking time, can you avoid having to verbally explain anything at all? If you don’t want her to assume you’re her BF, how about just not acting like her BF?
If you set expectations, you’ll never explain anything. As for acting like a boyfriend, it’s not that cut and dry. Think of it as being more of a “part-time boyfriend.” If you set expectations correctly, then you’ll never have to deal with being nagged by these girls. I’ve never been nagged by these girls about being their BF because they know if they pressure me, I’ll ditch them for the next girl. THEY KNOW THIS. Not because I say it explicitly, but because they’ve seen that I’m a high-value male who is in control of my emotions and my life. And the girls who still nagged me anyway? I ditched them for the next girl. I never had to tiptoe around the fact that I only spent 1-2 days with them because they EXPECTED it. The times I got in trouble were when I was new to FB’s and the girls expected to see me more often.
I typically take one night a week for each girl. On that night, I’m her de facto boyfriend. As long as I’m with her, she’s MY GIRL, and she knows that. We have dinner, watch a movie, hold hands, drink wine, go dancing, whatever… then we come home and fuck and cuddle and sleep. I wake up the next morning and go sarge other chicks until I see her again.
Managing expectations with an FB is a skill and it’ll take some trial and errors to develop. What surprised me the most was that managing her expectations were twice as easy as managing MY expectations. Girls are more in-tune with these things and can handle dynamic relationships better. You’ll be amazed at how quickly they’ll lower their expectations from you if you establish them strongly and clearly early on. But, the stumbling block that I see tons of guys in the community run into with FB’s is dealing with their own expectations and emotions. Guys find a great girl that they want to keep around and while going through all the trouble to generate an emotional response in the girl, they find an emotional response in themselves — and it usually scares the bejesus out of them. They either freak out and ditch a wonderful girl, or they freak out and become their boyfriend after a week. I had these same mindfucks early on. We’re taught to not have emotional responses. We’re cold automatons that are programmed to charm females out of their underwear left and right… right? Wrong, the joy of women is an emotional joy, so don’t be afraid of it. Our love for women enslaved us as AFC’s — becoming a PUA is mastering that love for women. Be more worried about handling it in yourself than in her, because when the time comes, if you stand your ground and own it, she’ll basically follow any lead you give her.
Harem Management 101
Somebody recently linked this on the Boston boards and I COMPLETELY forgot that I wrote it. I saw it today and was like, “damn, this is awesome, when did I write this?” So anyway, here it is on the blog.
Alright, here’s what I would call Harem Management 101.
Really, this shit comes down more to how much free time you have and not being stupid than anything else.
As any guy who this post actually applies to knows, women are TIME CONSUMING. They love to sit around and talk and cuddle and do a bunch of nothing with you all day. Typically, if a girl comes over at 8PM one night, it’s pretty much a given that I’m not going to be productive for the rest of the night. Keep this in mind and adjust accordingly.
With that said, when we’re juggling multiple women, they fall into two categories: the FB and the MLTR. FB’s are of the pump-and-dump variety, more of booty calls. You don’t typically hang out with them a long time nor sleep over at their place or let them crash at yours. Sponteneity is more of the norm as calling her up at 10PM one night for a quickie isn’t out of line at all. As such, FB’s are easy on your schedule because they can fit in almost anywhere and you can go long stretches without seeing them (probably up to two to three weeks).
MLTR’s on the other hand are a once-a-week minimum. They usually stay over and vice-versa and you will often spend most of the day/night with her. They’re more time consuming and also weekend eligible (i.e., you should be willing to give them a Friday or Saturday).
For purely logistical reasons, I would not keep more than two MLTR’s at a time. At one point I had 3 MLTR’s and 3 FB’s, and I literally spent twice as much time in other beds as I did my own.
I’ll break down a little scale as far as time-consuming goes, MLTR = 1GF, FB = 0.5GF. So for instance, 2 MLTR’s and 2 FB’s would = 3GF’s.
1GF = Easily manageable. Far more nights free than not. Be careful of scarcity complex and getting too attached to the one girl.
2GF = Still manageable. 2 MLTR’s + 1 FB is probably my favorite rotation as you still have quality time with quality women, have chances to still go out every week, but will never go more than 2-3 days without getting laid.
3GF = This is where it begins to get time consuming. You’re now spending just about every other night with a girl. If you work a lot or have a lot of hobbies, this is probably the most women you can handle at once.
4GF = You really must hate being home and/or alone. No time to go out, always tired. Spending a night by yourself actually begins to look like a luxury.
5GF = This begins to test your sanity. If you still force yourself to go out on weekends, you no longer have ANY nights free. Literally almost every night is a “date” or spent with one girl or another. I got close to this once and I literally had NO FREE TIME. Ever. After a week I freaked out and dropped a couple girls.
You hear about guys like Zan or DavidX who have juggled up 7 or 9 GF’s at a time, but in both cases, the girls all not only know ABOUT each other but knew each other. Having dealt with multiple girlfriends, I don’t buy this at all — unless they’re calling their FB’s “girlfriends” (which some guys do). Simply the amount of time necessary to manage all of the relationships and the fact that you only have so much sex drive. I mean, my sex drive can barely keep up with ONE girlfriend, but NINE? You’d be spending four hours a day fucking and the another four fighting about which girlfriends you were fucking and which ones you weren’t. Your life would fall apart.
I think 4GF is the highest you could reasonably go without having the girls meet each other and start double booking them. I don’t have nearly as much experience with introducing FB’s and MLTR’s and having them hang out. The basic idea is that you tell each girl that you will not tolerate any jealousy or drama from any single girl, that they must at least be courteous to the other women in your life and then just hope the women get along well. Even then, you have to do a lot of maintenance and arbitrating. So the massive amounts of time consumption still exists.
Really, there’s no getting around the time factor. Guys get off bragging or day-dreaming about having like six women at once, but once you actually start dating 5-6 women at a time, the massive amounts of time needed to manage those relationships defeats ANY satisfaction anyway. I mean, sure it’s cool to fuck five different girls in one week, it’s always nice to say you’ve done it. But the reality is at the end of that week I would have killed to have two nights by myself.
Here are some other general guidelines:
1) Try to find a day of the week for each of your MLTR’s. Mondays-Thursdays are great. Check your schedule against hers and see what works. Chicks actually really like this if you can arrange this and tell them, “OK, every Monday is our night together.” Save the FB’s for bootie calls later on in the week when you’re drunk and horny on a Saturday.
2) Obviously, to avoid double-booking, you’re going to have to plan out each week a week in advance. Guideline number one makes this much easier, but a lot of times these girls will invite you to shit or you’ll have new day two’s and shit set up. When you only have 1-2 girls, making plans isn’t a big deal, but when you’re juggling 4-5, planning a week in advance is MANDATORY. Find out the girl’s schedule and make plans. It’s never a bad idea.
3) Managing everyone’s expectations: if a girl wants you to hang out with her next Wednesday, but Wednesday is booked, just tell her “sorry, I got plans, but I’m free Thursday.” If it’s something specific and personal to her (like she’s in a performance or her friend out of town is coming, etc.), call your Wednesday girl and reschedule telling her something ambiguous. NEVER underestimate the power of ambiguity. Saying, “Oh something came up, can we hang out Thursday instead?” will rarely get a second thought. If the girl does say, “Oh, what are you doing?” that should send up a flag that she’s becoming emotionally involved and wants to know why you’re rearranging your time with her. I like taking the route of being honest, except use “my friend’ vaguely to describe what’s going on. For instance, in this example if the girl asked me why I was rescheduling, I would say, “My friend has a performance Wednesday, and they asked me to go to it.” It’s true. But it’s sexually ambiguous.
4) Dropping girls from the rotation requires little more than not calling them. Trust me, if you have enough girls you’ll find yourself forgetting to call your lesser favorites anyway.
5) If any two are bisexual or bi-curious, consider introducing two of them. Double book a night. Tell each one about the other one beforehand and get them to look forward to meeting and then see what happens. In my experience, the best threesome potential happens with a MLTR and an FB combo. Two MLTR’s will get pissy and jealous of each other, and two FB’s, there’s just not enough investment in you.
Alright, here’s what I would call Harem Management 101.
Really, this shit comes down more to how much free time you have and not being stupid than anything else.
As any guy who this post actually applies to knows, women are TIME CONSUMING. They love to sit around and talk and cuddle and do a bunch of nothing with you all day. Typically, if a girl comes over at 8PM one night, it’s pretty much a given that I’m not going to be productive for the rest of the night. Keep this in mind and adjust accordingly.
With that said, when we’re juggling multiple women, they fall into two categories: the FB and the MLTR. FB’s are of the pump-and-dump variety, more of booty calls. You don’t typically hang out with them a long time nor sleep over at their place or let them crash at yours. Sponteneity is more of the norm as calling her up at 10PM one night for a quickie isn’t out of line at all. As such, FB’s are easy on your schedule because they can fit in almost anywhere and you can go long stretches without seeing them (probably up to two to three weeks).
MLTR’s on the other hand are a once-a-week minimum. They usually stay over and vice-versa and you will often spend most of the day/night with her. They’re more time consuming and also weekend eligible (i.e., you should be willing to give them a Friday or Saturday).
For purely logistical reasons, I would not keep more than two MLTR’s at a time. At one point I had 3 MLTR’s and 3 FB’s, and I literally spent twice as much time in other beds as I did my own.
I’ll break down a little scale as far as time-consuming goes, MLTR = 1GF, FB = 0.5GF. So for instance, 2 MLTR’s and 2 FB’s would = 3GF’s.
1GF = Easily manageable. Far more nights free than not. Be careful of scarcity complex and getting too attached to the one girl.
2GF = Still manageable. 2 MLTR’s + 1 FB is probably my favorite rotation as you still have quality time with quality women, have chances to still go out every week, but will never go more than 2-3 days without getting laid.
3GF = This is where it begins to get time consuming. You’re now spending just about every other night with a girl. If you work a lot or have a lot of hobbies, this is probably the most women you can handle at once.
4GF = You really must hate being home and/or alone. No time to go out, always tired. Spending a night by yourself actually begins to look like a luxury.
5GF = This begins to test your sanity. If you still force yourself to go out on weekends, you no longer have ANY nights free. Literally almost every night is a “date” or spent with one girl or another. I got close to this once and I literally had NO FREE TIME. Ever. After a week I freaked out and dropped a couple girls.
You hear about guys like Zan or DavidX who have juggled up 7 or 9 GF’s at a time, but in both cases, the girls all not only know ABOUT each other but knew each other. Having dealt with multiple girlfriends, I don’t buy this at all — unless they’re calling their FB’s “girlfriends” (which some guys do). Simply the amount of time necessary to manage all of the relationships and the fact that you only have so much sex drive. I mean, my sex drive can barely keep up with ONE girlfriend, but NINE? You’d be spending four hours a day fucking and the another four fighting about which girlfriends you were fucking and which ones you weren’t. Your life would fall apart.
I think 4GF is the highest you could reasonably go without having the girls meet each other and start double booking them. I don’t have nearly as much experience with introducing FB’s and MLTR’s and having them hang out. The basic idea is that you tell each girl that you will not tolerate any jealousy or drama from any single girl, that they must at least be courteous to the other women in your life and then just hope the women get along well. Even then, you have to do a lot of maintenance and arbitrating. So the massive amounts of time consumption still exists.
Really, there’s no getting around the time factor. Guys get off bragging or day-dreaming about having like six women at once, but once you actually start dating 5-6 women at a time, the massive amounts of time needed to manage those relationships defeats ANY satisfaction anyway. I mean, sure it’s cool to fuck five different girls in one week, it’s always nice to say you’ve done it. But the reality is at the end of that week I would have killed to have two nights by myself.
Here are some other general guidelines:
1) Try to find a day of the week for each of your MLTR’s. Mondays-Thursdays are great. Check your schedule against hers and see what works. Chicks actually really like this if you can arrange this and tell them, “OK, every Monday is our night together.” Save the FB’s for bootie calls later on in the week when you’re drunk and horny on a Saturday.
2) Obviously, to avoid double-booking, you’re going to have to plan out each week a week in advance. Guideline number one makes this much easier, but a lot of times these girls will invite you to shit or you’ll have new day two’s and shit set up. When you only have 1-2 girls, making plans isn’t a big deal, but when you’re juggling 4-5, planning a week in advance is MANDATORY. Find out the girl’s schedule and make plans. It’s never a bad idea.
3) Managing everyone’s expectations: if a girl wants you to hang out with her next Wednesday, but Wednesday is booked, just tell her “sorry, I got plans, but I’m free Thursday.” If it’s something specific and personal to her (like she’s in a performance or her friend out of town is coming, etc.), call your Wednesday girl and reschedule telling her something ambiguous. NEVER underestimate the power of ambiguity. Saying, “Oh something came up, can we hang out Thursday instead?” will rarely get a second thought. If the girl does say, “Oh, what are you doing?” that should send up a flag that she’s becoming emotionally involved and wants to know why you’re rearranging your time with her. I like taking the route of being honest, except use “my friend’ vaguely to describe what’s going on. For instance, in this example if the girl asked me why I was rescheduling, I would say, “My friend has a performance Wednesday, and they asked me to go to it.” It’s true. But it’s sexually ambiguous.
4) Dropping girls from the rotation requires little more than not calling them. Trust me, if you have enough girls you’ll find yourself forgetting to call your lesser favorites anyway.
5) If any two are bisexual or bi-curious, consider introducing two of them. Double book a night. Tell each one about the other one beforehand and get them to look forward to meeting and then see what happens. In my experience, the best threesome potential happens with a MLTR and an FB combo. Two MLTR’s will get pissy and jealous of each other, and two FB’s, there’s just not enough investment in you.
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